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Serhat
12-29-2009, 12:53 PM
Hello,

I've probably stumbled upon a rather common problem...

We recently sold an imaging unit from a CF2002/3102 machine that we no longer use. The problem is that the customer says that his machine won't accept the unit as full. Apparently, this is by design as Minolta's technical service also confirmed to him that it's not possible to switch components between machines.

As I understand, it is somehow possible to "reset" an imaging unit. I find it surprising this has to be done at all, because there appears to be no technical reason for a fully functioning imaging unit to no longer work.

Could any of you point us in the right direction?

minimerlin
12-29-2009, 04:08 PM
Hello,

I've probably stumbled upon a rather common problem...

We recently sold an imaging unit from a CF2002/3102 machine that we no longer use. The problem is that the customer says that his machine won't accept the unit as full. Apparently, this is by design as Minolta's technical service also confirmed to him that it's not possible to switch components between machines.

As I understand, it is somehow possible to "reset" an imaging unit. I find it surprising this has to be done at all, because there appears to be no technical reason for a fully functioning imaging unit to no longer work.

Could any of you point us in the right direction?Was the Image unit a used one from your machine ? If so then you should not expect the customer to see it as FULL as it will not be! The only way to get a full unit is to buy a new one! If you rechip and sell as new then that could be fraud!

Serhat
12-29-2009, 04:49 PM
The customer was looking on a local ebay for a used imaging unit and I happened to have one that was barely used. Naturally, I did not charge full price and the customer was happy with the deal.

What the customer was not happy with is that his machine won't accept the unit at all. It doesn't work. It still says "replace imaging unit". Thus, the unit is effectively useless. There is no logical reason why one cannot put a unit that was paid full price for in another machine.

That's why I suggested we ask experts on this forum if they can offer any advice.

I hope that someone with a less negative mindset can respond with something more intelligent.

minimerlin
12-29-2009, 05:22 PM
The customer was looking on a local ebay for a used imaging unit and I happened to have one that was barely used. Naturally, I did not charge full price and the customer was happy with the deal.

What the customer was not happy with is that his machine won't accept the unit at all. It doesn't work. It still says "replace imaging unit". Thus, the unit is effectively useless. There is no logical reason why one cannot put a unit that was paid full price for in another machine.

That's why I suggested we ask experts on this forum if they can offer any advice.

I hope that someone with a less negative mindset can respond with something more intelligent.
Thanks for your concern as to my intelligence, I will no bother to lower myself by replying to your rudeness. I was stating the facts. It is obvious that the customers machine had displayed the Replace Image Unit message and therefore the only way to clear it is ...To fit a new or reset unit. It is not possible for a used one that has already been in one machine to reset this message in another machine. The customer needs to understand his machine as well.

Serhat
12-29-2009, 05:42 PM
It looks like I ran into the forum troll?

Please, we would appreciate any serious answers from other people.

Stirton.M
12-29-2009, 05:49 PM
You had a serious response from a serious tech.

Here is another.

Your image unit that you sold has a chip on it.

When you used it, your machine triggered a reset in its internal counter and changed a bit setting on the IU itself. This IU is considered "used" and will not reset another count cycle on any machine.

You could of course, purchase a chip reset device, seen advertised on this site.

Or give the person you sold the unit(s) too back and let them purchase from a legitimate KM supplier.

minimerlin
12-29-2009, 05:57 PM
It looks like I ran into the forum troll?

Please, we would appreciate any serious answers from other people.Well thankyou kind sir..do not expect to get any further assistance from me!:mad:

minimerlin
12-29-2009, 05:59 PM
You had a serious response from a serious tech.

Here is another.

Your image unit that you sold has a chip on it.

When you used it, your machine triggered a reset in its internal counter and changed a bit setting on the IU itself. This IU is considered "used" and will not reset another count cycle on any machine.

You could of course, purchase a chip reset device, seen advertised on this site.

Or give the person you sold the unit(s) too back and let them purchase from a legitimate KM supplier.Thank you for your support, may I second your suggestions ref the above!

Serhat
12-29-2009, 06:53 PM
You could of course, purchase a chip reset device, seen advertised on this site.
I think that is the best option. We will look into that. It should also help him get more lifetime out of his other units. The machine is EOL anyway, so there's no "real" harm he can do to it.


Or give the person you sold the unit(s) too back and let them purchase from a legitimate KM supplier.
I've offered to take the unit back, but he sees it as a waste to not recycle an otherwise fully functional unit. It would be a shame if I'd just have to dispose of the unit.

minimerlin: perhaps this was a case of miscommunication. I understood from your initial response that you considered the possibility that I was trying to scam my customer. I found that very offensive. But if I misread this, then let me apologize for that.

ebm
12-29-2009, 06:54 PM
This forum has gone to the dogs! Filled with cheapa** end users and unauthorized third party wannabees. Soooo sad! I mostly come here for the games lately.

minimerlin
12-29-2009, 10:15 PM
minimerlin: perhaps this was a case of miscommunication. I understood from your initial response that you considered the possibility that I was trying to scam my customer. I found that very offensive. But if I misread this, then let me apologize for that.Apology accepted! Thank you Serhat. :)

Serhat
12-29-2009, 10:47 PM
This forum has gone to the dogs! Filled with cheapa** end users and unauthorized third party wannabees. Soooo sad! I mostly come here for the games lately.
Where does this hostility come from?

I certainly don't deserve it: all I wanted to do was to recycle some of the components of an EOL machine that would otherwise have burdened the environment.

Is that so offensive to you?

laserman06
12-31-2009, 03:41 AM
Can we all just get along?:D

Serhat
12-31-2009, 03:59 AM
Can we all just get along?:D
Well, I for one am still curious what caused the hostility in the first place.

To me, it seemed both logical and ethical to opt for recycling, rather than pollution.

fixthecopier
12-31-2009, 10:10 PM
Hello,

I've probably stumbled upon a rather common problem...

We recently sold an imaging unit from a CF2002/3102 machine that we no longer use. The problem is that the customer says that his machine won't accept the unit as full. Apparently, this is by design as Minolta's technical service also confirmed to him that it's not possible to switch components between machines.

As I understand, it is somehow possible to "reset" an imaging unit. I find it surprising this has to be done at all, because there appears to be no technical reason for a fully functioning imaging unit to no longer work.

Could any of you point us in the right direction?


This would be a guess, but maybe the way you worded the first post got the first response like it did. This forum gets a lot of end users trying to cheat the system for one reason or another. To answer the question you ask... The units are timed, by page count in most cases, to be changed BEFORE they cause a quality problem. This way end users can change the easy stuff themselves. Let me ask you this, "If the machine runs until the units fail, will you know what to change when your green is not as green as it used to be? Is it the yellow or the cyan? When units fail, people call in work orders and then get pissed when they get charged and all they had to do was change a cartridge. That is why the machine tells you to change them, it knows more than the operator. Hope this helps, have a good new year.

Serhat
01-01-2010, 05:51 PM
Thank you for your response. After reading my initial post again with a critical view, I see how one could come to another interpretation than I intended. But it seems to be worked out now :)

To answer your counter-question:

1. If one machine sees a unit as barely used, the other should too. If a unit is good for, say, 50k copies on one machine, then it should also be good for 50k copies on another, not 0.

2. Keep in mind that these particular models are pretty old and that they usually don't have service contracts on them anymore. Basically, any extra life you can get out of them is a bonus.

We started on one of these old machines, but as time went on and our business grew, we decided we wanted more reliability and predictability (fixed price per page). That's why we invested in a new machine (2009 model) with a service contract that includes consumables.

fixthecopier
01-01-2010, 07:18 PM
With some machines the count is recorded on boards in the machines. The new unit would have a fuse or a chip that would pop and reset the counter on the board. If in machine "A" the cyan unit was installed and reset the counter, and then ran 500 prints, the machine thinks that unit has 500 prints on it. If you go to machine "B" and the cyan unit has run 45,000 prints and remove that unit and put the one in from machine "A", well the machine still thinks that new unit has 45,000 prints on it, because the machine has never had the count reset on the board. The newer Bizhub color printers keep count on the unit itself. Copiers are always adjusting themselves based on how many prints are on them. This is because the surface of the drum wares down with use, so the machine will compensate by making internal adjustments. Putting a new chip in does not always work. You have told the machine this unit is new and it adjust itself for it, but in reality it has 45.000 prints on it. You may have instant quality problems, or it may last a week or so. You just never know.
Techs can pick their fight. Most customers will go along with the chip thing when you explain how they are saving money. I went to a 3 star generals office last month and chipped all three color units on a c550. The next week one of them coded and I went back and changed all three so I would not have another one code the next week. It was easier for me to fight with my manager than the generals staff.
Also when we change those units they are sent back to the factory to be rebuilt. They don't go to the landfill.
Also I have 2 2002's and 1 3102 still new in the box, sans the firery, that I am trying to move dirt cheep.
Have a happy new year.

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