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jdmorrisn
09-13-2012, 12:03 PM
Hi all, I have a Bizhub C10, the Y toner was empty, replaced it, then it said the K toner was empty, replaced it, now it says the M toner is empty. Basically as soon as i replaced one they all seem to be going. pretty such if I replace the M catridge it will tell me the C is empty too. Now, I don't believe it since the new Y catridge is exactly the same weight, give a few ounces as the supposedly empty C cartridge. The Konica technician says 'if it says they are empty, then they are empty', great help, not buying it. Especially considering it hasn't warned me that they are low (this setting is on), it just told me it was empty as soon as I replaced the other cartridge - I haven't been able to print anything in between changing cartridges so now I'm pretty sceptical, perhaps they have an 'expiry' date rather than being empty, since the previously installed cartridges were actually purchased at the same time although not installed at the same time. So, how in hell can I either get it to ignore the toner empty warning or reset it? I have a HP printer where I took out an internal battery to get around the expiry dates on their cartridges and the cartridges last more than a year now instead of months, you know it's empty when the colour fades, whereas before it printed beautifully then wouldn't let me. failing being able to get around the nonsense 'toner empty', perhaps it is possible to set it to print black and white since the majority of the printing I do is anyway b&w? Any ideas?

pepper38_cnd
09-13-2012, 12:55 PM
Below is the theory of opperation. As you see things will become very messed up if you ever put a used cartridge back in the machine. Have you been swapping cartriges arround trying to get it going? If so you may find yourself in a possition were you must install all new cartridges and go from there. The only other alternative could be to re-chip all cartidges, if you can find a chip supplier.

Theory of operation ver. 2.0 Nov. 2007 9. Cartridge section
9.3.2 Toner cartridge (TC) life controlA. Toner cartridge detection and new cartridge detection timing
• The machine attempts to perform a detection sequence when the front door is closed.
B. Toner Cartridge detection
• The machine accesses the TC detection board (CSIC) to check for data stored in it.Using that data, the machine determines whether or not a toner cartridge is loaded.
C. New toner cartridge detection
• After a toner cartridge has been detected, the machine determines whether it is new ornot based on the data acquired.
D. Toner cartridge near empty and empty condition detection
• The amount of toner consumed is calculated from the number of dots produced for oneprinted page by the controller. A toner near empty condition and a toner empty conditionare thereby detected.<Toner near empty decision>• The machine determines that there is a toner near empty condition when the imagecounter and dot counter reach the life value.<Toner empty decision>• The machine determines that there is a toner empty condition when a predeterminednumber of printed pages are produced after the toner near empty condition has beendetected.

jdmorrisn
09-13-2012, 01:18 PM
Hi, no I haven't removed or put a used one back in recently. I mean I have done this about 2 years ago when I had a K toner in the cupboard that I believed was a new one but it told me it wasn't (since i thought we had ordered a spare). But until it started going silly on me I haven't had the need to open it - just ordered the toner.

Hansoon
09-13-2012, 04:10 PM
Has nothing to do with chips in this case. The problem is that the machine cannot read the chips because the contacts on the "sensor" for the chips are dirty or misaligned.

I'm talking about the thingy KonicaMinolta idiotically calls "Push Button Switch Assy" - Guess we must be glad they didn't call it "Holder" or "Guide" this time.... but I'm carried away....... - brilliantly located there where the toner happily trickles down with each print (Pos. 12 on Page 11 of the parts manual with part # 4139-6306-02 or 4139R73511).

The 3 flimsy contacts become easily dirty from toner and/or become twisted and dislocated.

Remove all color units and the drum unit as well than you can see at the bottom at the right side KonicaMinolta's Space Age High Tech construction for chip detection.

Clean with a soft brush first to remove toner and than with a very soft cloth dampened with alcohol. Do not push the contacts too much inwards or they will pop out of position and you have to replace or repair KonicaMinolta's silly "Push Button Switch Assy".

Had to do just one today again and my post "might" indicate that I'm pissed...........

BTW: The machine reads every time again the chips and displays the amount of toner left. Nothing is stored in the machine itself, all is registered in the chip of each unit and therefore you may happily switch color units between machines as often as you like. The only thing you will notice is that the machine starts a calibration cycle every time that it senses and different chip, be it new or used.

Hans

pepper38_cnd
09-14-2012, 11:40 PM
Han's you are probably right about the contacts. I for got about that or just assumed anyone having issues would have cleaned them first.

Now Here is what I know about supply items with Eprom Chips:
In most cases the chip serves 2 purposes. The first is "New Item Detection" that means that when the machine is asking for replacement item, the chip tells the machine that it is a new Item. In most cases this can only be done once, after that the item will never be seen as "New" again. The second is life indication either counting up to 100% Used or counting down to 0% left.

So what does this mean? If you put a "New" item into a machine for testing purposes. Make a couple copies, and then return it to its package. You have tripped the "New Item Detection" on the chip, and that item will never be seen as new again by the machine. Now if you hang onto this item lets say it's a K Toner, until the machine says you must install a new K toner. Installing the one previously installed will not reset the message and the machine will not work. Not until it sees a "New Item". This same toner can be installed in a machine that is not calling for replacement and it will work fine.

The life indication indicated by the chip is stored on the chip and will be transfered from machine to machine and indicated by the life counter for that item. So swapping units is fine provided the machine is not asking for replacement.

Note on some items the life indication also serves as the as the New Item indicator ie: 100% Will be seen as New and 99.99% will not be recognized as new. it really doesn't matter if the detection is done by New bit or Counter the result is still the same. Even if an item has only made 1 print/copy it will not be detected as new, and will not work if the machine is calling for a new item.

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