Canon or Konica Minolta

[cakeisalie]

We currently are reevaluating our copier situation at our company. We have recieved two seperate proposals from separate companies. One is recommending Canon Image Runner 3235/3245 and imageRunner 3230 lines to us, and the other the Konica Minolta Bizhub 421/ and Bizhub 282. Just curious what everyone's take were on these models, known issues etc. The specs don't vary much from what I can tell. I'm familiar with the Canon name and this is my first exposure to Konica Minolta. Any thoughts would be appreciated!

[corbet.dorsey]

Both the Konica 421 and the 282 are relatively new models, they are a continuance of the Konica Bizhub 420 and 250 respectively, my experiance is that they were both very relyable models, I don't have enough info about the Canons to make a direct comparison, but I hope this is helpful.

[Jules Winfield]

I have very limited experience with Canon models, but I do know that Konica Minoltas require diligent service to keep them going. This is probably true with Canons as well. I would go with whatever company can provide the best service since, as you stated, the specs are pretty much the same. If you are unfamiliar with both companies, then I would ask each of them how many technicians they have, how many machines they currently service and how large of a geographical area they cover. Then just go with the company that has the largest number of techs servicing the smallest number of machines in the smallest area (if that makes sense). Don't bother asking the salesman how good their service department is, they'll just lie right to your face.

[Scott_Lewis]

Cannot give you a direct comment as I've never worked on a Canon. So, this is just for another point of reference.

We service and sell two brands; KonicaMinolta and Ricoh (Savin).

Between the two I think we have fewer (real) service calls on the Ricohs than we do for the KMs. Copy quality for B/W is equally good on both brands. I think the KM has slightly better color quality. However, the Ricoh cost only 50-60% of the KM for parts and supplies. We like to say that KM is pretty proud of their parts based upon what they charge for them. So, for production color print we sell KM. For office business color, I would go for the Ricoh.

Many companies that replace their copier tend to keep the same brand. However, we have been picking up quite a few more of the Canon replacements than we have lost to a Canon. IOW, we very seldom lose a customer to our Canon competition. We do sell into ex-Canon customers pretty regularly. We have a pretty high retention rate for machine upgrades. We lose far more customers to Sharp, out of area major account sales (where corporate office does the purchases and the local office is no longer allowed to purchase locally) and a couple other brands based mainly on price. I think our service department is what keeps our customers and makes our reputation. Many of the customers we have lost have ended up coming back for their next machine.

So now that I've rambled on and on, what is the bottom line? Overall, Canon is probably every bit as good as KM (and Ricoh). Look to the service department to make your final decision. Forget about what the dealer tells you. Go talk to other businesspeople in your area and ask how they like the service they get from their dealer. Don't bother asking the copier salespeople for referrals. They will only give you a cherry picked list of good (and happy) customers.

[fixthecopier]

I am another Konica Minolta tech. I can say nothing about Cannon, but I have few if any real problems with the black and white Bizhubs. I have a few color in my area and do not have issues with them. There are 7 dealers in this town, 3 of them sell Konica Minolta and Ricoh, none of them sell Cannon.
As the others have said, SERVICE, SERVICE, SERVICE!

[SCREWTAPE]

I'm a strictly canon tech and the those lines IR3245,ETC are quite reliable. As for biz hub,KM I'm sure they are reliable as well. It all depends on how you use it and how much you use it. If you have print or copy in high volume then look into a higher mid. The Ir3245 is a 45ppm copier, the drum lasts about 75 to 80k And if you get it, make sure you get the IR3245i, It pretty much comes with everything, scanning,printing. I'm sure the other vendors offer the same.

[Christan]

Hi,
Check with canon wait printer controller are they giving your company( UFR II or the MPDL with is PCL5e/6 and Emulation PS). the UFRII is canon's technology with a some draw back, can't be use if you have host printing (AS400, Unix) and quality suffer slightly (you will be able to tell if its a color copier) but speed is the fastest compare to canon PCL5e/6 and emultion PS(slowest). For Large File like PDF, powerpoint it require longer time to process compare to other brand of copier.

[tulsavw]

As a technician trained almost exclusively on Canons, I can't give you much with regard to comparison (without sounding extremely biased at least.) To me, they seem to be good machines, barring a few of them out there, and they seem to make the customer pretty happy, as well. I don't have any real qualms to speak of.

As one of the people said above, though, the real quality to compare is more easily seen through the scope of what the two service departments are capable of doing as far as minimizing downtime on your behalf. I would be looking for, as well as request to the salesperson, a response time to service calls under two hours in a bigger city. That is our constant goal where I work.

[mabawser]

worked for konica minolta for 8 years.....hate them with a passion! the 421 is an upgraded 420 which when i worked on them forever had problems with the toner and the 250 wasnt a bad wee box so I'd be assuming it would be quite good. I would never recommend to but a konica just from experience but then again there were some out there that never broke down. I had 2 420's side by side of each other. I was at one every other day and never touched the other even though they did the same mileage?!?! typical konica

Cant comment on cannon for now but our company is moving to cannon from ricoh machines so lets just hope they are as good.

Anyone working on cannon and ricoh?! never worked on cannon as I've said but going on a cannon course at the end of the month

[Titan1969]

	Quote:			Originally Posted by mabawser
	the 421 is an upgraded 420 which when i worked on them forever had problems with the toner

yes the konica toner bottle hoppers are a nightmare. I think they try to hard to "key" the bottles so aftermarket cant copy them. Unfortunately it hurts our customers more then aftermarket because the machines are down so much due to toner hopper issues. The 420/500 has some good points but very finicky. CHECK! parts costs verses Canon on consumables. That our biggest issue with Konica.