IR105 issues -- Considering repair or 105+ or 8500

[pmailfl]

Hi,
I have an IR 105 that's got 12 million clicks on it and needs all 3 discharge units changed out. This is almost $700 in parts. Plus, the unit jams frequently at the fuser. I was told this could be as simple as a bearing or could get expensive, but the tech wouldn't know until he got into it.

He came up there to change out the discharge unit and I would have gladly spent the $700 to keep the machine going, except as soon as he put them in, other problems started to cascade and the machine would not go through an entire run without jamming (while he was still here).

He told me he would have to come back on Monday to give an estimate to fix the rest of the unit, but if he left the new discharge units in place, I had to pay for it even if his estimate to repair the rest of the unit was not worth it, so common sense told me not to hang on to them for the weekend.

He was hinting that the machine might not be worth repairing with such high mileage (I know they would love for me to buy a brand new machine, but that's out of the question right now), so I'm thinking I should save him the trip back up and set the 105 aside for parts and get another 105, 105+ or 8500.

I know the 8500 is newer, but slower. I have no idea what the differences are between the 105 and 105+


My questions:

Is it worth putting money into the existing unit? The drum has at least another 2 million to go on it, but I don't want to get into a bottomless pit of spending money and being down for service calls with the rest of the unit. At what mileage are these ready for the dumpster or complete overhaul?

What's the differences between the 105 & 105+, and aside from the speed, the IR8500 ?

Right now in my local area, I can pick up a 105+ with M2, booklet finisher, LCT tray, 1.5 mil clicks for about $6500, an IR8500, same stats for 3K, or an 8500 with 4mil clicks and almost new drum for $1500.

Thanks

[Oze]

Firstly...
Is your tech a Canon trained tech?
The iR105+ and the iR8500's are a great machine but they really do require that the scheduled services are carried out....i.e.250k/500k/750/1mil.
I ask about your tech's training because he should have assessed the machine and checked rated part lives for replacement..e.g:what percentage are the Coronas/fuser/right and left decks and large paper deck etc etc.
You could be up for a hell of a lot more than $700 if the periodic maintenance hasn't been done...ESPECIALLY if the machine has done 12mil.
I'm in charge of 4 iR105+ that have all done 13mil and even though I keep up with their scheduled maintenance they STILL keep me run off my feet most days with parts replacement.

[pmailfl]

The tech is Canon certified but it is only his second time looking at the machine. I relocated it across the country, found a tech here and had him check my setup , level the machine and clean it.

I put over 50,000 copies on it since it was set up here, so I doubt moving the machine had anything to do with it.

In it's old location it was also serviced by a certified tech.

I would assume the service records are recorded in the machine and each tech would know what parts are due for replacement.

I actually asked the tech here for a preventative maintenance, and he said it wasn't due yet.

[davidj7]

i have 8 105's and my machines have done more than your 13 mil . one machine has done 20 mil and still running.

Why dont you start from the begining and tell us what was happening before the units were changed. Fuser jams could be a delay jam

[pmailfl]

From the beginning:

I had the machine in Florida, running fine. I shipped it to Los Angeles, set it up here, and ran about 20,000 prints through it. I told the tech I was moving and asked him to do whatever was necessary to keep the machine in good shape before I left. He rewired the corona unit not long before I left and mentioned I should get a PM kit after another 250K copies.

Once I got the unit to LA, I set it up myself and everything ran fine, other than a few jams at the finisher. I figured the finisher was not level (it was on carpet in FL and it's on concrete here) since the james were starting between the exit of the copier and entrance to the finisher.

Rather than play with it myself, I thought it would be a good idea to find a tech in the area, have them come out and level it, clean the machine, inspect, and let me know if I set the rest of the machine up properly.

The tech came out, leveled the finisher, connected the doc feeder (which I forgot to do because I never use it anyway), said I didn't need anything else, and left.

About 40,000 copies later, I started having problems where on occasion I would send a job to the machine and it would just brain fart and print 1 or 2 lines of an entire page of text, extremely blurry, and the rest missing. All pages to follow would do the same thing.

However, if I reset the machine (by opening the door and letting it warm up again) everything would return to normal.

This usually didn't happen mid-way through a job. If it was going to brain fart it did it on the first page sent.

I figured I could live with that until the next service call, since I was able to fix it by resetting.

Shortly afterward, I would get jams at the fuser and was able to clear them and continue. I was in the middle of a long job, and since the copies were acceptable, I just cleared the jams and figured I would call for service after I was done.

Then, I started getting lines on the copies, thin toward the bottom of the page and 1 or 2 toward the middle about 1/4 inch. This would happen after the unit would get hot, like after 300 or so copies.

At that point I stopped and called for service.

The tech said the 3 discharge units needed to be changed. While he was here, I mentioned everything else that went wrong.

He changed out the discharge units and we were unable to run a job past 100 copies before it jammed. He looked at the jam codes on the machine and said it was the fuser but could not do anything about it then.

He implied that with this kind of mileage on the machine most of the internal bearings, parts, etc... are going to start causing problems.

So now I was in a bind, because if I let him just come back on Monday to look at the rest of the machine, and he came back with a crazy estimate to fix it, I would have spent $700 on discharge units I didn't need. Not to mention the fact that after he put the discharge units in, we weren't even able to run enough copies to get the unit hot enough to see if the lines on the prints disappeared.

I told him he can leave the discharge units in the machine and I would not turn it on until he came back on Monday, but this wasn't acceptable. I was forced to either have him remove them or pay for it, so it didn't make sense to keep them knowing I couldn't use the machine anyway.

That's where I'm at now.

I don't want to say anything negative about the tech. He did seem knowledgeable and friendly, but perhaps their ultimate goal is to sell me a new machine? Lucky for me, I moved to a major metropolitan city, so there should be other choices here.

I didn't think 13 million was a alot for a 105 either. At what point are these ready for the dumpster or an overhaul?

I'm thinking that whether I fix this or not, I should get another machine anyway. My volume is almost 200K a month and it would be nice to have a back up.

Since it hasn't been answered yet (or maybe someone can point me to a chart) what are the differences between the 105 and 105+?

Thanks Again

[SCREWTAPE]

maybe someone can point me to a chart) what are the differences between the 105 and 105+?

Thanks Again

It has a new Canon (segment 6) main Controller, LMS (License Management System), and MEAP (Multifunctional Embedded Application Platform) enabled.

[davidj7]

Your fuser jams could be the result of pickup delay. Could you try from a different paper source and see if it jams in the fuser in a 150 copy/print run.

I dont think your discharge units are causing this and since your situation hasent changed much since you replaced them, if you could return it ,it wouldnt hurt.

Have you replaced the seperation carona and transfer carona units.

Regarding your backup machine since you haave a 105 ,its better to get another 105 since you can use the old one for spares. 105+ some PCB's are different.

[pmailfl]

Okay, I just did a run of 500 duplexed letters from drawer 2 and no jams.

It also isn't drawer 1 by itself, because if I try a job that pulls from 2,3,4 it will jam.

From what I am guessing, the fuser or duplexer do not seem to be causing the problems. Perhaps that's just where the paper made it's last stop and what code the machine reported?

My biggest problem now (since I can live with using only 1 drawer) is the gray horizontal band that varies in thickness and intensity throughout the job. Any ideas on this? The tech seemed to think changing the discharge units would solve it, and I have no idea if he is correct because he had to take the new discharge units back with him last week (we couldn't get through a run to test it out without constant jams).

Should I call him back and have him put new discharge units in, or is there something else I can try (and hopefully much cheaper) first.

[Herrmann]

First at all, do us a favor, and post a scan of the printouts, so that we all can have a look at it to see the failure. Second, enter service mode by pressing * (the * with the circle around it) the 2 and 8 simutaneously, then * again. Then go to copier--->display--->jam and tell us the jam codes of the 10 events at the first side of the screen.

Then we can look further

[pmailfl]

The last 3 jam codes are 1215, the 2 before that are 1212, then there are 15 1211 before that in a row.

I've attached a windows test page that has a thin line about an inch from the bottom, and a scanned copy of one of my sheets with the band in the middle of the page.

The gradient above the 1/4in band is not present on the originals.