Deciding a new machine

**pmailfl** · 09-22-2010

I purchased a 105 on ebay with 10 million impressions about 3 years ago and it has served me quite well. I am now approaching 13 mi on the meter and service calls are becoming more frequent.

My volume averaged to about 100K / month earlier on, but now it's around 300K. I'm anticipating the need to do 500K / month in less than a year.

The machine is almost due for a new drum and transformers, and along with other PM parts will probably be more expensive than buying a used 105 with < 5 mil on the meter. That would probably be ~4K and would go another 2 years without major expense, assuming the drum had some life left to it.

I only use this for my own direct mail campaigns (variable data, 2 sided 60lb stock) and collated book sets. No jobs for customers or walk up copies.

My questions:

If I were to go to a used 7105, S2 finisher, < 1 mil count, and controller, price seems to be around $8500. How much more reliable is a 7105 over a 105? Would it be worth the extra 3-4K for the newer machine?

And if I were really looking to splurge, I've seen the 8105 mentioned on a few threads here. Aside from having a brand new machine (which I would probably lease and put under contract) what advantages will the 8105 provide?

What would the street price be for an 8105, saddle finisher, fiery controller with PS3, and maybe even a perfect binder? Is it even available in the US yet?

I am also printing 3,000 sets of 25 sheet books (double sided) per month and bind them offline with a Fastback machine. Within 2 years, this will probably triple. The idea of doing it single pass through the copier (with a more professional wraparound cover as opposed to a strip) sounds more appealing. What's the consensus on the 7105 / 8105 Perfect Binder?

I realize I can pick up a used 110 with 10 mil on it for the same price as the 7105 and it would run forever based on what I'm doing, but I don't have 3 phase power.

Thanks for your opinions.

**tinnyjay** · 09-23-2010

Originally Posted by pmailfl

I purchased a 105 on ebay with 10 million impressions about 3 years ago and it has served me quite well. I am now approaching 13 mi on the meter and service calls are becoming more frequent.

My volume averaged to about 100K / month earlier on, but now it's around 300K. I'm anticipating the need to do 500K / month in less than a year.

The machine is almost due for a new drum and transformers, and along with other PM parts will probably be more expensive than buying a used 105 with < 5 mil on the meter. That would probably be ~4K and would go another 2 years without major expense, assuming the drum had some life left to it.

I only use this for my own direct mail campaigns (variable data, 2 sided 60lb stock) and collated book sets. No jobs for customers or walk up copies.

My questions:

If I were to go to a used 7105, S2 finisher, < 1 mil count, and controller, price seems to be around $8500. How much more reliable is a 7105 over a 105? Would it be worth the extra 3-4K for the newer machine?

And if I were really looking to splurge, I've seen the 8105 mentioned on a few threads here. Aside from having a brand new machine (which I would probably lease and put under contract) what advantages will the 8105 provide?

What would the street price be for an 8105, saddle finisher, fiery controller with PS3, and maybe even a perfect binder? Is it even available in the US yet?

I am also printing 3,000 sets of 25 sheet books (double sided) per month and bind them offline with a Fastback machine. Within 2 years, this will probably triple. The idea of doing it single pass through the copier (with a more professional wraparound cover as opposed to a strip) sounds more appealing. What's the consensus on the 7105 / 8105 Perfect Binder?

I realize I can pick up a used 110 with 10 mil on it for the same price as the 7105 and it would run forever based on what I'm doing, but I don't have 3 phase power.

Thanks for your opinions.

I have a Canon IR105+ copier and normally i make with it 15k-25k in a day.
I have seen somewhere working together conected with each other 12 copiers ir105+.They worked 24 hours without stoping like a printer.(Telecom)
I mean they are very strong copiers.
I would suggest you to buy another one or two others they work together and all your work,they devide with each other.
Canon IR7105 is newer than ir105,or ir105+ and sure is beter than older models.
Dont let to do all your job only a copier,because if it is the best on the market,after working without stopping,it will be a tired horse.

**pmailfl** · 09-23-2010

Originally Posted by tinnyjay

I have a Canon IR105+ copier and normally i make with it 15k-25k in a day.
I have seen somewhere working together conected with each other 12 copiers ir105+.They worked 24 hours without stoping like a printer.(Telecom)
I mean they are very strong copiers.
I would suggest you to buy another one or two others they work together and all your work,they devide with each other.
Canon IR7105 is newer than ir105,or ir105+ and sure is beter than older models.
Dont let to do all your job only a copier,because if it is the best on the market,after working without stopping,it will be a tired horse.

My problem with that is space and power.
Even if I had the room for an additional machine or two, I would need to install a sub-panel, since my electrical panel is maxed out (All the 110 slots are already using piggy back breakers, and the rest are occupied by 220).

It's not a big deal if the machine is down for a few hours while I'm waiting for a tech, since all the jobs are mine anyway and my mail can always go out a day later if need be.

For less than $4,000 plus a few service calls over the past few years (which probably did not exceed another 4K) , I certainly got my money's worth out of the 105. With 3m clicks, I paid .0026 each plus toner and paper, and that includes the cost of the machine! I would say it served me well, but I may have been lucky.

That being said, and knowing my volume is climbing quickly, I'd rather go for the 7105 or 8105 if reliability is much better than a 105. If it's just improvements in software/capabilities, I'm fine with the 105, but the perfect binding would be cool to have.

Does the 7105 or 8105 have the equivalent of Ricoh's Trained Customer Replaceable Units, or is this a marketing gimmick with hidden stuff, like it being more expensive than a service call anyway? I would still stick with Canon over Ricoh, just curious.

**Herrmann** · 09-23-2010

if i may give you an advice, stay at the canon brand, single component toner and a silicium drum designed for 3 million copies helps to hold your service costs down. But have one Thing in Mind: due to the single component Toner, the Canons have its issues with solid black and halfetones; thats live...if you can live with that until today, you do not miss it, so stay at canon.

just my 2 cent

Ps.: and yes, as i stated before in another thread, they are real workhorses... the more they run, the better they are...

**tinnyjay** · 09-24-2010

Canon has this features compared to all other brands :
1-No developer
2-6 billion impressions of drum ( IR7105)

**pmailfl** · 09-24-2010

I am definitely staying with Canon, no question about that. Was just curious if the newer machines had the Trained Consumer Replaceable Units.

One other question:

When should the tech be called for PM maintenance on the 105 and 7105?

Right now, he comes as needed. I wanted to do PM on my existing 105, but the tech has been hesitant, thinking something major could go wrong right after I pay for the service and it may end up worthless. On a low meter or new machine, I would certainly want to have the tech out according to schedule.