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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by aab1 View Post
    Exactly, inkjets, so lasers can't get anywhere near as low a cost per page probably due to the cost of toner which will likely never be anywhere near as low as the same amount of liquid ink.
    Well we have to be fair. Those machines again are ridiculiously expensive and made for very specific customers. I think they usually use huge rolls of paper too so you need a warehouse, special forklift and equipment to trim and cut the pages down to size.

    Toner devices can get very competitive on price. Now for quality. Those inkjets can't compare to the quality of the laser toner devices. Case in point, my cable company outsources to a printing firm that prints the monthly statements, and it works for the task, but the colors are all pixelated...if that's a word.

    For Joe Schmoe, a laser device will cost less per page than an inkjet in ALMOST all cases...apparently you're an exception. Most people don't buy inkjets that even use liters of ink or print as many as you do in an office environment.

    Then there's the technical side. Very appropriate since this is a forum for techs. Again, the machine you must have appears to be an anomoly. Almost all inkjets are buy them use them then throw the damn things away if anything breaks at all. Almost all toner devices are still very repairable. So you save on your capital investment.

    I worked on one inkjet in my life b/c it was a friends and the ink lines dried. It was a $50 piece of shit and not worth the time.

    Remember with a business class laser you get a dealership and expert technician ready to keep your machine running and running and running (no snickers please). Uptime is important to people.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCREWTAPE View Post
    You know I kinda have that feeling also that something is strange about this character.
    That must have been before I joined the forum...sounds like it was quite the drama.

  3. #23
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    Again I'm not talking about small home inkjet printers, I'm taking about those for high volume printing that are made to exceed laser printers speed and lower cost per page compared to a similar priced laser. Specifically this is the HP Officejet Pro series (formally known as the HP Business Inkjet series).

    Actually the inkjet I use was $600 and is up to 35 pages/min and that's because it's a copier/fax too, you can get the "printer only" version for $200 or less. It doesn't use 1 liter cartridges when you buy it, it uses small ink tanks that make I believe 1500 color pages and 2500 black pages but they cost about $20 per cartridge, so even buying genuine cartridges it costs half the price of laser printers, by attaching liter bottles to it like I did, which is a 30 minute modification I can get 50 000 color prints for $200 of ink (the printer has a built in ink pump so it has no trouble pumping the ink from the bottles).

    Here's a video of my inkjet in action:



    And there are $25 000 inkjets that do use cut sheet paper and run at 150 pages/minute, this video link should start it at 2:18 where it shows the 150 ppm speed:

    YouTube - Worlds Fastest Full Color Copier/Inkjet printer Riso ComColor

    About quality, I'm not sure where you get this from but any photographer knows that laser printers make unacceptable photo quality due to the much larger dot size they make (unless you go into $100 000 models). Inkjet printers using 6 colors make completely invisible dots and their print quality can't be beat, even my 4 color non photo quality inkjet by far exceeds the print quality of my laser copier (even if both set to 600 dpi, although my inkjet goes up to 4800 dpi and the laser only 600).

    I must admit though that on my inkjet after 200 000 prints I had to replace the print carriage motor, but 200 000 prints for a $600 inkjet before needing any repairs (especially a $5 motor) is pretty good.

    Quote Originally Posted by kingpd@businessprints.net View Post
    Well we have to be fair. Those machines again are ridiculiously expensive and made for very specific customers. I think they usually use huge rolls of paper too so you need a warehouse, special forklift and equipment to trim and cut the pages down to size.

    Toner devices can get very competitive on price. Now for quality. Those inkjets can't compare to the quality of the laser toner devices. Case in point, my cable company outsources to a printing firm that prints the monthly statements, and it works for the task, but the colors are all pixelated...if that's a word.

    For Joe Schmoe, a laser device will cost less per page than an inkjet in ALMOST all cases...apparently you're an exception. Most people don't buy inkjets that even use liters of ink or print as many as you do in an office environment.

    Then there's the technical side. Very appropriate since this is a forum for techs. Again, the machine you must have appears to be an anomoly. Almost all inkjets are buy them use them then throw the damn things away if anything breaks at all. Almost all toner devices are still very repairable. So you save on your capital investment.

    I worked on one inkjet in my life b/c it was a friends and the ink lines dried. It was a $50 piece of shit and not worth the time.

    Remember with a business class laser you get a dealership and expert technician ready to keep your machine running and running and running (no snickers please). Uptime is important to people.

  4. #24
    Service Manager 1,000+ Posts
    Waste toner reuse?

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    And how is he classified as a technician if he's an end user.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian8506 View Post
    And how is he classified as a technician if he's an end user.
    I don't think he is. I've seen a lot of people on here not being technicians.

  6. #26
    All things Konica Minolta 1,000+ Posts Stirton.M's Avatar
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    About quality, I'm not sure where you get this from but any photographer knows that laser printers make unacceptable photo quality due to the much larger dot size they make (unless you go into $100 000 models). Inkjet printers using 6 colors make completely invisible dots and their print quality can't be beat, even my 4 color non photo quality inkjet by far exceeds the print quality of my laser copier (even if both set to 600 dpi, although my inkjet goes up to 4800 dpi and the laser only 600).

    Comparing an inkjet to a cheap HP printer shows how little you know about the industry. A C252 from Konica could outperform the visual quality of inkjets like your Canon in photo mode. I know this, I have many customers who have exclaimed this. The toner particles are far far smaller than what HP uses and are wax based, not plastic which is the mainstay of many HP laser toners. Colour blends exceed that of many inkjets, and this on a machine model that is 5 years old on a $12000 chassis. The newer series machines blow the socks off that one, for similar price range. No need to go $100G.

    And of course, in many cases, a photographer worth their salt will not use low end ink printers. Especially if volume production is paramount. The CPC would be through the roof. Infinitely cheaper to produce a full page image 8.5x11 on a laser class, or as I had noted with some of my customers, they have wax sublime line printers for their photo reproductions when dealing with large scale. An artist does his prints on a similar plotter from HP. But again, these are not disposable toys.
    "Many years ago I chased a woman for almost two years, only to discover that her tastes were exactly like mine: we both were crazy about girls."
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    Please do not PM me for questions related to Konica Minolta hardware.
    I will not answer requests or questions there.
    Please ask in the KM forum for the benefit of others to see the question and give their input.

  7. #27
    Senior Tech 250+ Posts montana's Avatar
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    hi...as i know the inkjet printing is more cost than the laser one ...am i wrong?

  8. #28
    SanDiegoCopierRepair.com 1,000+ Posts
    Waste toner reuse?

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    Quote Originally Posted by montana View Post
    hi...as i know the inkjet printing is more cost than the laser one ...am i wrong?
    As a rule of thumb you would be correct - for most machines toner based printing is cheaper than ink unless you are buying low end cheap non business class equipment - but the poster fitted his machine with ink bottles which are not standard equipment that lets him save even more. Either way-he is comparing apples and oranges. 50 posts in 2 days of being a member! That poster is flooding this tech forum with a lot of useless posts and it would help if we could all ignore future posts by him by not responding. He is baiting us with his posts and enjoying how we all line up like idiots to post answers.
    Last edited by blazebusiness; 10-30-2010 at 06:28 PM.
    Anything can be made to work if you fiddle with it long enough- San Diego Copier Repair.com

  9. #29
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    That's possible, I've only seen sample prints from HP lasers up to about $10 000 and I know that a $100-200 inkjet easily beats the print quality of a $10 000 HP laser printer.

    I looked at that C252 and it's only 600 dpi, so I have trouble imagining how it can beat a 4800 dpi inkjet, and would have a very hard time believing it can beat a 6 color inkjet printer which makes photo lab quality prints by making completely invisible dots. If you want I can mail you something printed on my 4 color business inkjet (which is FAR from the print quality of a 6 color photo inkjet), even professional laser printed magazines don't look as good as a print from my non photo quality inkjet.

    And again in my laser/inkjet cost per print page we've already established that no laser printer can have as low a cost per page as an inkjet made for volume printing. The reason being that liquid ink simply costs far less than toner powder, and inkjets cost far less in replacement parts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stirton.M View Post
    About quality, I'm not sure where you get this from but any photographer knows that laser printers make unacceptable photo quality due to the much larger dot size they make (unless you go into $100 000 models). Inkjet printers using 6 colors make completely invisible dots and their print quality can't be beat, even my 4 color non photo quality inkjet by far exceeds the print quality of my laser copier (even if both set to 600 dpi, although my inkjet goes up to 4800 dpi and the laser only 600).

    Comparing an inkjet to a cheap HP printer shows how little you know about the industry. A C252 from Konica could outperform the visual quality of inkjets like your Canon in photo mode. I know this, I have many customers who have exclaimed this. The toner particles are far far smaller than what HP uses and are wax based, not plastic which is the mainstay of many HP laser toners. Colour blends exceed that of many inkjets, and this on a machine model that is 5 years old on a $12000 chassis. The newer series machines blow the socks off that one, for similar price range. No need to go $100G.

    And of course, in many cases, a photographer worth their salt will not use low end ink printers. Especially if volume production is paramount. The CPC would be through the roof. Infinitely cheaper to produce a full page image 8.5x11 on a laser class, or as I had noted with some of my customers, they have wax sublime line printers for their photo reproductions when dealing with large scale. An artist does his prints on a similar plotter from HP. But again, these are not disposable toys.

  10. #30
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    I've said that even with no modification it still costs half the cost per page for inkjets, my modification gets it from half the cost to 1/80th the cost.

    Quote Originally Posted by blazebusiness View Post
    As a rule of thumb you would be correct - for most machines toner based printing is cheaper than ink unless you are buying low end cheap non business class equipment - but the poster fitted his machine with ink bottles which are not standard equipment that lets him save even more. [/B]

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