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  1. #11
    Senior Tech 250+ Posts 20gaugeO/U's Avatar
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    Re: Riso RZ 970 master disposal error, problem with one drum

    Both drums are driven by the large chuck on rear of the drum (dark grey/black looking thing) take them both out and see if one is loose or not that closely aligned??? If one was to far off it wouldn't go in the machine anyways...

    There is no adjusting the disposal rollers except the speed of them (TM 578) which is already set to 10% faster than the drum, could try 20 or 30%. If you remove the disposal box and look on the front wall you will see 2 orange/yellowish levers, one stamped 1 and the other 2. #1 will release the pressure of the disposal rollers and #2 will push them back together, they are for jam removal. As long as all the belts (5 I believe) are there and in the centered groove you should be OK.

    I don't remember if Print drum Position A stays saved in each drum but I don't know if you want to start messing around with all these settings. I'm still leaning towards a mechanical issue with the clamp plate... but hard to say. No matter what setting you change make sure you write down what it was at so you can easily set it back. A second set of eyes can be helpful and hopefully you have the manual already. You can also rig the front door safety switch and remove the small cover (1 screw) at about 11 o'clock above the drum and watch what's happening during the disposal with the help of a flashlight. Do not stick anything in there!!! Could damage the drum or you'll be typing with 9 digits... Good luck


  2. #12
    Technician thibaut's Avatar
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    Re: Riso RZ 970 master disposal error, problem with one drum

    Thanks for all your advices, all I have to say is that you know very well these machines !!

    Quote Originally Posted by 20gaugeO/U View Post
    Both drums are driven by the large chuck on rear of the drum (dark grey/black looking thing) take them both out and see if one is loose or not that closely aligned??? If one was to far off it wouldn't go in the machine anyways...
    Nope, for that, both are looking the same I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by 20gaugeO/U View Post
    There is no adjusting the disposal rollers except the speed of them (TM 578) which is already set to 10% faster than the drum, could try 20 or 30%. If you remove the disposal box and look on the front wall you will see 2 orange/yellowish levers, one stamped 1 and the other 2. #1 will release the pressure of the disposal rollers and #2 will push them back together, they are for jam removal. As long as all the belts (5 I believe) are there and in the centered groove you should be OK.
    I think you got it, here. About the roller speed, I tried and yes, when I am on a higher speed, the master is not ę just Ľ out, but almost every time driven, partly, ending torn in 2 and wrapped most of the times.
    So I took a look with a flashlight and, as I compare with the technical manual, I think there is a big thing missing here : the 4 little round belts, on the upper part of the master removal rollers... I am highly surprised but yes they are missing (I think I am looking right?). Here is a picture of 2 of them :
    IMG_2264.jpg
    So, I tend to think, now, itís the cause of the problem. I think what I made, shortening the mast-clamp amount, is that a little part of the master is just partially ę eat Ľ by the rollers on the strongest/motor side of them, getting stuck and wrapped.
    I donít explain why it was working before with the old clamp-plate, otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by 20gaugeO/U View Post
    I don't remember if Print drum Position A stays saved in each drum but I don't know if you want to start messing around with all these settings. I'm still leaning towards a mechanical issue with the clamp plate... but hard to say. No matter what setting you change make sure you write down what it was at so you can easily set it back. A second set of eyes can be helpful and hopefully you have the manual already. You can also rig the front door safety switch and remove the small cover (1 screw) at about 11 o'clock above the drum and watch what's happening during the disposal with the help of a flashlight. Do not stick anything in there!!! Could damage the drum or you'll be typing with 9 digits... Good luck
    Ah ah, yeah I ma a little bit afraid of starting messing with the positions A/B and the degrees of the drum (Iíve read a lot on that and it seems complicated for me, even more when I am not sure at all it has something to do with the problem!). Anyway, the new clamp-plates seems to work/almost work, so I think the problem comes from a mix of parameters and that ALL the 4 belts are missing on the master removal rollers!
    Thanks, also, for the advice about the cover which can be removed, I did not know that
    And yes, I write down EVERYTHING I do when I am in TM, each time ! I donít trust my memory at all !

    Again, thanks for all these leads. I think the missing belts are clearly a big part of the problem, do they?

    And happy easter and holidays to everyone here.


  3. #13
    Senior Tech 250+ Posts 20gaugeO/U's Avatar
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    Re: Riso RZ 970 master disposal error, problem with one drum

    Oops, step 1 should have been are all your disposal belts in place but your first post already seemed past that stage and onto another issue that can sometimes arise. Oh well replace all the disposal belts and you should be good for a couple years.


  4. #14
    Technician thibaut's Avatar
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    Re: Riso RZ 970 master disposal error, problem with one drum

    Quote Originally Posted by 20gaugeO/U View Post
    Oops, step 1 should have been are all your disposal belts in place but your first post already seemed past that stage and onto another issue that can sometimes arise. Oh well replace all the disposal belts and you should be good for a couple years.
    I totally agree, that's why I am totally a newbie here, like I was saying on my profile, I am totally new to these machines but deeply interested to understand how it works.
    Sorry again, to forgot this simple check.
    At least I have learnt many things on the machine and drums. Thanks again, I will definitely post here, after replacing the disposal belts, to confirm everything is OK and indicate it in the thread.
    Thanks so much for all the advices.


  5. #15
    Technician thibaut's Avatar
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    Re: Riso RZ 970 master disposal error, problem with one drum

    NEWS ! or : BAD NEWS !

    So ! The story goes on. I receive my 4 belts, for the master disposal system, I put them correctly. Everything is really on this side now.

    Anyway, it still doesnít work. Back from the start... I am really, really surprised. I really donít get it.
    So, As you said, and thanks for that, I look closely, with a flashlight, what happened during the master ejection. I got so crazy I even made slow-mo vids and I still donít get it !
    As usual, after different tries (even try to change a little the position-A drum), what I see is that :
    With the used clamp, it works fine (perfectly now, with the new belts in the ejection system!). With the new clamps, it doesnít. Sometimes it just ripped off the half of a master (which end very well in the master disposal box, the other half stuck on the drum), most of the times the master is just ę bend Ľ, a little part still under the clamp plate.

    With slow-mo vids, the only thing I noticed is that itís just donít get in the rollers with the brand new clamps, an amount of master is not getting ę out Ľ and stay bend during the removal action. I donít get it. I can upload the video on YT if it helps...
    I will do new tests about TM543 (master amount under clamp), and the position-A. In any case, the difference of action between the used and new clamps is impossible to see for me.

    For now I am just very, very skeptical... (as much as for the french elections, ah ah) (I am french)
    Of course, and again : if anyone has leads !


  6. #16
    Technician thibaut's Avatar
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    Re: Riso RZ 970 master disposal error, problem with one drum

    Update on my last post : A solution

    Iíve found a solution for now... After all the story, ending with new belt in the eject system, many tests on TM 543 (master clamp amount) and TM 941 (changing the į of position-A, which is stored in the machine, and not the drum, for info), I was back to the beginning : everything was OK with and old clamp, but not the 2 brand new clamps.

    SO !
    I re-examined for ages the 3 clamps and the only subtle difference I see is, as unbelievable as it is, on the 2 new clamps, the master-release bar (the narrow one which drive up the master to the ejection system) seems a bit ę longer Ľ. On the left side (side with the plastic button, not the side with the roller), i am able to unhook the bar from the frame, sliding it easily. On the old used clamp, itís very hard to do that.
    So may be, because of that millimeter extra length, the master-release bar is slightly bend, and not at the same position, in the middle of the bar, from a millimeter, than the used one.

    I am very surprised that 2 new clamps, ordered separately, have the same issue, but...
    I tried something hardcore but it was my only idea : put additional pads, and tape them, along the master-release bar. Like that, I was able to fix the imperceptible curve I was wondering, making the master-release bar sticking more the drum horizontally.
    And.... After many tries (putting one pad after another, making a confidential master each time and looking at the result) : it works. On both clamps (I have putted the 2 new clamps on the 2 drums).
    Sooooo.... for now here how it looks on the ę cleanest Ľ clamp :
    IMG_2410.jpg
    There are 5 little pads, taped, on this one, and more on the other.

    For now, itís working, but I have to see how it goes in the next days/weeks. But the issue is clearly around this part (see the tries Iíve done before, looking in slow-motion at the master eject...), more than timing or parameters, I think these clamps react ę badly Ľ in this machine.
    I will, for sure, post updates on this question (I also plan to acquire new drums, so...) asap.


  7. #17
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    Re: Riso RZ 970 master disposal error, problem with one drum

    try replacing the clamp unit assy , I have had many fail and the symptoms are as you describe especially where the master tears
    in half , ( normally the front half of master is still under clamp plate ), and yes it can affect different drums to differing degrees
    and can be intermittent

    good luck


  8. #18
    Technician thibaut's Avatar
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    Re: Riso RZ 970 master disposal error, problem with one drum

    Thanks for your last suggestion s817. I have another problem very different I got to fix, but in the next days I have to test a new drum !
    Since one month, I've had NO problem at all but my drums still have the tape on them. I think, right, it's something very subtle and unclear from the clamps...


  9. #19
    Riso dude 250+ Posts jermyth's Avatar
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    Re: Riso RZ 970 master disposal error, problem with one drum

    If you look at the pictures 20gauge posted earlier the ejection plate is sticking to base and the base needs either smoothed out or as in the first picture cut off.

    Good luck.


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