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  1. #1
    Field Supervisor 500+ Posts tcypy1961's Avatar
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    HP LaserJet 4250

    Customer called us out about getting trash on their prints, so we went out and found that the upper fuser belt had a bare spot. I changed the fuser belt and the transfer roller, and the problem was gone. However they called back and now the paper is hanging up in the machine and the prints have a little distortion to them. I noticed the old fuser belt turned but not the new one. Is the fuser belt supposed to turn, and if so how much? Does it turn the same as the lower roller or less than that? I believe this is where my problem lies. If anyone has experienced such a thing I ask for your help and appreciate it. Thank you.


  2. #2
    Field Supervisor 500+ Posts
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    Yes it needs to turn. Take a look at the press roller bushings see how bad one is worn.


  3. #3
    Master Of The Obvious 10,000+ Posts
    HP LaserJet 4250

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    When you changed the fixing film did you clean the heater surface of caked toner and old lubricant, and re-lubricate the heater surface with the new high temp grease included with the film? Maybe I go a little overboard, but I am not satisfied with teeny little packet of grease. It takes two packets to adequately coat the heater. You can purchase the fixing film lubricant separately. Did you get the fixing pressure springs back in the correct position? =^..^=

    If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
    1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
    2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
    3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
    4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.


    blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

  4. #4
    Dangerous with Tools 1,000+ Posts
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    There is also a band on the sleeve that indicates which direction the sleeve should go in. Don't get that backwards. Blackcat is right, the sleeve will not turn with no grease or old grease and there is a certain type you have to use (rated for high heat or it will break down at high temps). The wrong sleeve on assembly will cause similar problems. 4250 sleeves and 4200 sleeves are different.


  5. #5
    Technician
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    It's not a "belt" but known as a film sleeve and on the 4250 and 4350 is made of a coated brass material. The sleeve rides on a film of high temperature grease and when the grease gets old it drags and that causes the smeared print and jams. Not sure where you obtained the rebuilt fuser but it sounds like the rebuilder either used the wrong grease, or they sold you a used one. They may even have forgotten to grease it when they rebuilt it so the film sleeve is dragging on the heater element and has no lubricant to roll on. I rebuild fusers and use Uniflor 8172 which is what HP's grease is on new and rebuilt fusers. I would contact the vendor you bought the fuser from for a replacement.

    Now if the fuser turned by hand alright outside the machine but not in the machine and a grinding or binding noise can be heard it would indicate a worn swingplate gear assembly.


  6. #6
    Technician
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    Oops I may have misread this - sounds like they replaced the film sleeve. Yep they probably left off cleaning and regreasing the element. The bare end goes to the side where the red wire attaches to the cover, it's the ground.

    Either way the film sleeve is dragging and causing the problem. I tried Chemplex 710 at first and on 4250/4350 sleeves it gets gunky within a week and causes the same problem. So far only Uniflor 8172 has worked correctly but the inside of the new film sleeve and the entire heater assy has to be cleaned well with alcohol, then once assembled the outer coating needs to be cleaned to remove trace oils.

    When I rebuild inshop or onsite I always replace left and right pressure roller bushings, pressure roller and fuser film and if the guides on the side are broken I replace those too. On rare occasion I have to replace the heater element due to damage to it's coating but I add that onto the flat fee I normally quote.


  7. #7
    Service Manager 100+ Posts CanonHPTech's Avatar
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    Sounds like you or your customer might have to bite the bullet and try another whole Fuser unit. For the trouble and time it takes to swap a Film in the field, you might as well just swap the Fuser with a refurbed one. Like most things, even though HP or most parts companies won't tell you this, all Fusers have a life or a limited time of how many times they can be rebuild. There comes a point that even the parts companies won't refurb an assembly anymore. Also, films should be swapped in the shop, not the field. Remember, some times you have to charge your customer a little more to help you make them happy longer. Let us know how you make out.

    The glass maybe half full, but less is more...
    Printer + Fax + Copier = Jack Of Many Trades,
    but Master Of None
    Color Copier = Not A Color Printer
    InkJet MFP = Not A Fax Machine
    B/W Copier = Not A Press
    Finisher = Deal Closer (salesman, not accessory)
    Copier Tech = Admin's Stress Ball (Scapegoat)

  8. #8
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    Why would you need to do this in shop? I've been rebuilding fuser assemblies for going on 7 or 8 yrs now (for my own customers only) and many are done onsite unless the printer is dropped off (or I pick up from locals). Of course the pressure roller and bushings are replaced with the film sleeve and if the thermistor, thermal sensor or heater strip are worn they are replaced as well. What else is there - a metal frame, exit sensor. wiring and heater/film support. The metal parts never go bad (unless dropped) and I've had one fuser with a bad wiring - an LJ 9000 fuser where the HP rebuild facility misrouted the small wires for the sensor, leaving them where the heater lamps for the upper roller vent causing heat damage to the tiny wires. Unable to obtain the wire harness I rebuilt the section that was bad.

    When I was doing US Bank 3rd party work (2004 to beginning of 2009) for the very large mortgage complex in Owensboro and Bowling Green KY the company that hired me to do the work supplied the parts. They came from 4 to 5 major vendors and the failure rate was outrageous even from HP direct. 1% due to shipping problems (lamps broken from being handled roughly and insufficient packing in the box) and many times they had to pay for a return trip due to failed new parts.

    With my own rebuilds in shop and in the field I've done hundreds over time, and had 2 where something had to be done afterwards. One was a torn film that ended up being misuse by the end user running inkjet labels through a laser printer and one where a right lever broke on a 4200 before the metal reinforced replacements came out.

    Of course the person doing so in the field needs to have the skills to rebuild correctly and the extra parts on hand that might be needed - cleaning rollers, lock levers, lamps, thermistors, thermal sensors/jam sensors, springs, flags, etc as just replacing the film or heater roller is not a correct and proper rebuild. Also cleaning things properly and having the proper grease (for sleeves) is essential. In the case of the original poster ot sounds like they removed the old sleeve and slipped on a new one and called it done. In that case the person should not be rebuilding at all until they gain the skills to properly assess the parts needed, install them properly and knows how to properly test (and correct things if the rebuild still has problems). Also if done inshop you have to have either the customer's machine or a test machine on hand - without operational test of at least 50 pages it's not really a proper rebuild. That's most of the reason I won't do rebuilds to sell as a swap system since the rebuild has to be tested properly, and the core coming in has to be tested before and after rebuild. I have some machines to test with but I'm not planning on having a couple dozen machines around to accommodate testing of numerous product lines.

    Of course knowing the machine resets is essential too - some just have counters in memory, some have chips or fuses that have to be replaced.


  9. #9
    Service Manager 250+ Posts
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    My cost from Parts Now for a refurbished fuser with a 180 day warranty:

    RM1-1082-BB
    Refurbished, exchange In Stock
    $115.00


    I always change the fuser this will cost the customer less in labor unless like RHBlakeman you have the parts and skills.
    In 7 years I have had 5 fusers go bad under warranty. Parts now had a replacement fuser in my hands the next day without the 3rd degree.
    Like us they survive on customer service.

    Rob S


  10. #10
    Technician
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    Partsmart and Liberty Parts Team are my two main sources of rebuild products, although the fuser grease from Partsmart leaves a lot to be desired, seems like a cheap knock off of the Uniflor that is the proper grease for the films. Only problem I've had so far with any grease (Chemplex 710. Uniflor 8172 or Partsmart's unmarked grease) is on the metal sleeves for the 4250/4350 fusers - seems that after 2-3 days of running the grease is contaminated and gooey with what looks like dark gray contaminants - if I run a soft cloth tightly through the fuser sleeve wetted with acetone inside the sleeve (do this outside and don't get it on the outer coating of the sleeve) then that gray gunk doesnt occur. Also clean not only the heater strip with alcohol but the whole heater assembly with alcohol. If the plastic coating of the heater strip is worn or bubbled then replace it - the plastic is what reduces drag between the sleeve and the heater strip with the grease being the lubricant it rolls on.

    The better brass metal sleeves for the 4250/4350 line fusers are the ones marked made in Japan from Liberty. Those usually run the full 225k maint cycle or longer. The coating on the Chinese ones varies depending on the paper they use - cardstock is rough on the coating of the chinese ones from Partsmart, as are some 20 lb papers (chalk is the wear agent there).

    I charge the end user parts and labor about what Partsmart wants for a whole fuser from me and I make good money from the rebuild. If I bought fuser assemblies then I'd have to add labor and markup to that. I have had a few times I had to buy outright fusers for customers that had no core (printers that got set in storage and someone snagged the fuser from it and didn't put the bad one back in) and I got those from Liberty after I had 2 in a row with various problems from Partsmart but that was when Partsmart was fairly new. Other than that having someone else's charges on my business debit is the only problem I've had with Partsmart and Charlie Mote corrected that right away. Of course if we hadn't noticed the charges someone else would have gotten an order for free - and a pretty hefty order at that. Liberty has never screwed up anything, parts/services/pricing/shipping and Colleen is available on AOL IM so I don't have to call or email (unless I have a lot to inquire about) and she gives me instant answers and takes the order right from the IM since its going to the account address. If I have to cross ship somewhere else then she has me call and verifies a few things to be sure it's not a bogus order.

    HP I won't even buy a fuser from anymore. The rebuilds were ok when they rebuilt out of Calexico, CA but since they have pulled all the rebuilding to a contractor in China the quality has suffered and I'd rather get rebuilds from someone in the US that actually rebuilds in the US. Not sure where Laser Pros sources their fusers from but the last 3 yrs I've seen lots of junkers coming through (the US Bank jobs were supplied with fusers from LPI for a while and many times there were problems).

    Some fusers you just either have to rebuild, or buy from a non-OEM - Brother, Samsung, etc. Usually Olson Bros or another I can't think of right now. I did order from Agson once for a fuser assy for a Brother HL-1240 but it took forever as they have to order then cross ship it. Precision Roller is ok if you have a reseller account - the public pricing is crazy. Bad part about PR is they are slow to get things out the door even if you have P1 for a shipping method.


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