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  1. #1
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    c6501 when duplexing creasing paper pre image transfer

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    c6501 when duplexing creasing paper pre image transfer

    Hi all
    Is it too late to say Happy New Year??...

    The Machine:
    Model: KM c6501 - Year: 2007 Count:3.8M
    Condition: Service contract until 18 months ago, resurrected last week after dormant for 12 months, 01/18 Fuser 900k rebuild, inc. fixing drive shaft A + TH3/4, drums/dev renewed, new k dev unit . Simplex fine.

    The Problem:
    See image below...
    When duplexing, as you can see, the paper is being not just rippled but creased to a 'z' fold pre-image transfer.
    Any pointers and suggestions as to what what be causing this are most welcome.
    As I visualize in my mind the passage through the ADU - maybe festivities have taken their toll - I am at a loss as to what could be the cause or what might rectify it - what am I missing?

    So any pointers, starters for ten, link to relevant posts most appreciated.

    Mark

    c6501 creased paper.jpg


  2. #2
    Master Of The Obvious 10,000+ Posts
    c6501 when duplexing creasing paper pre image transfer

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    Re: c6501 when duplexing creasing paper pre image transfer

    "Z" folds occur when either the buckle is too large between rollers, or one section of the machine downstream is turning slower than the section before it (perhaps not enough difference to notice visually). Maybe a snag on the fuser inlet guide, briefly delaying entry to the fuser.

    Sorry, I'm unclear on this point: is there image inside the "Z" folds? And it only affects duplex? =^..^=

    If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
    1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
    2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
    3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
    4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.


    blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

  3. #3
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    c6501 when duplexing creasing paper pre image transfer

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    Re: c6501 when duplexing creasing paper pre image transfer

    Quote Originally Posted by blackcat4866 View Post
    "Z" folds occur when either the buckle is too large between rollers, or one section of the machine downstream is turning slower than the section before it (perhaps not enough difference to notice visually). Maybe a snag on the fuser inlet guide, briefly delaying entry to the fuser.

    Sorry, I'm unclear on this point: is there image inside the "Z" folds? And it only affects duplex? =^..^=
    Many thanks ‘blackcat4866’ for replying and good question.

    It only happens upon duplex.
    The 'front' side of the paper has been 'printed', the paper exits the fuser enters the ADU, is reversed, exits the ADU and enters registration.
    The folding is happening before the image is transferred to the 'back' side of the paper as there is no image on the inside the folded section.
    You may just be able to make this out from looking at the print on the top sheet in the pic, in opening up the fold there is no text.
    Which is why for me I don't think it is the fuser.

    FYI The fuser was causing issues which led me to give it a full rebuild (well what I call a 900k service) including the two sensors TH3/4 which had been indicated in a stop code. There were also the classic c3102 codes and a c35xx code which were resolved with the replacement of the Fixing shaft A (which was worn) and the three fixing gears - common fix for this. So for me the Fuser is in a good place, although having had a full strip as you suggest it could be causing a difference in paper speed and so causing the fold... had it been post image transfer I would agree, alas the fold is not. That said you have given me the idea of swapping out the fuser and seeing if the problem occurs with another known working fuser.

    Any further thoughts most welcome

    Thanks


  4. #4
    Master Of The Obvious 10,000+ Posts
    c6501 when duplexing creasing paper pre image transfer

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    Re: c6501 when duplexing creasing paper pre image transfer

    Yes, it's definitely happening between the first side transfer event and the second side transfer event (Did I make that confusing enough?). So that includes the fuser, fuser drive, exit drive and sensors, duplex drive, duplex sensors, and possibly the registration rollers (in that order). I'm personally leaning towards the duplex feed clutch.

    If you've worked on these machines for any length of time you'll recognize the cloud of rust powder around the affected clutch. Most of the clutches on this machine are 302KV44041. Take a picture of that clutch. That whole section of the machine will be that pretty red iron oxide color.

    Have you had to replace the exit sensor flag yet? They rarely last pass 1.2M. =^..^=

    If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
    1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
    2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
    3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
    4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.


    blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

  5. #5
    Master Of The Obvious 10,000+ Posts
    c6501 when duplexing creasing paper pre image transfer

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    Re: c6501 when duplexing creasing paper pre image transfer

    Oops! I had been thinking of Kyocera KM-6501i when I wrote those comments, but overall they're still true. =^..^=

    If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
    1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
    2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
    3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
    4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.


    blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

  6. #6
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    Re: c6501 when duplexing creasing paper pre image transfer

    Try printing single sided face down, if you get some jams, then you know its decurling roller... I have seen waves, then ripping after the fuser but before it comes back around...

    I would agree with blackcat, bad clutch will act funny... also check all your ADU drive, had a belt slip before and a gear crack and still run but making a noise you would hear....


  7. #7
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    c6501 when duplexing creasing paper pre image transfer

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    Re: c6501 when duplexing creasing paper pre image transfer

    Re: c6501 when duplexing creasing paper pre image transfer
    Morning all...

    'Blackcat', indeed I had realised you had the Kyrocera , however I took your suggestion changed out three of the clutches, well, you know how it is there are two types, and I only have one of them.... so have ordered one of the second types which will be in the pot to check when it comes in.

    'methogod' thanks for those suggestions, yes it could well be the deculer - had not thought of that - so will work through that, should have one upstairs. I had carefully inspected the two ADU motors and their respective belts/gears. And on first inspection I could not see any failure here, however will certainly keep that in mind because it can be hard to spot a split gear.

    FYI, I tried something else on Friday. I noticed that on some of the copies the image post 'fold' were smudged. So I changed the lower transfer roller (P/N 65AA45011), now it could be coincidence, but since then the paper has not been rippled, curled, nor folded.

    That said, one thing I have learnt from this machine, is that it is very fickle, so I am not really expecting that to have fixed the issue, will keep you posted. So if any other thoughts come to mind do feel free to post, so that I can add it to the arsenal when it comes back to bite.

    And now that the paper isn't being folded, I've discovered that the second side registration is all over the place, up to 35mm difference, so that is next...



  8. #8
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    Re: c6501 when duplexing creasing paper pre image transfer

    [QUOTE=raplma;590058]Re: c6501 when duplexing creasing paper pre image transfer
    Morning all...

    'Blackcat', indeed I had realised you had the Kyrocera , however I took your suggestion changed out three of the clutches, well, you know how it is there are two types, and I only have one of them.... so have ordered one of the second types which will be in the pot to check when it comes in.]

    I think it is ADU exit problem, the last roller which drives paper in to registration assy. Either clutch or jammed gear assy. If it is before that, which should give some code (either paper is delivered early OR late to ADU exit). since there is no code it is overdrive in ADU exit which registration assy. is not able to handle.(I mean lead edge of paper from ADU is just in time in registration Assy so no code)
    Hope this helps.




  9. #9
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    c6501 when duplexing creasing paper pre image transfer

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    Re: c6501 when duplexing creasing paper pre image transfer

    So....
    Just spent a good hour removing the registration assy and associated gubbins. Gave it all a very good clean, bearings, shafts, rollers, gears, sensors, connections, paper guides etc. And now (touch wood) it seems to have resolved the situation. So a combination of replacing the lower transfer roller, checking the clutches and thoroughly cleaning the registration assy has done it.

    So massive thanks 'blackcat', 'methogod' and 'AjitN' for your help and inspiration, last Wednesday I was about to throw this machine out the proverbial window.... or hit it with a sledge hammer!

    Mark


  10. #10
    Master Of The Obvious 10,000+ Posts
    c6501 when duplexing creasing paper pre image transfer

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    Re: c6501 when duplexing creasing paper pre image transfer

    Congratulations on your success. =^..^=

    If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
    1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
    2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
    3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
    4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.


    blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

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