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  1. #1
    Senior Tech 250+ Posts
    low humidity ta 5501i

    n25an's Avatar
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    low humidity ta 5501i

    man I keep missing this stuff...
    title of thread should be high humidity...

    I am trying to wrap my mind around this humidity thing...

    tell me if I make any sense...

    I arrive at a customer site... I find the paper is curling... on all machines at the location...
    I find the humidity in the environment to be about 45% with a digital meter and the same in the machine with the same meter... temp 27 degrees c

    paper is curling excessively on this model after 20 pages...

    I find that putting new paper into the machine clears up the issue...

    I run a service mode test i believe its 137 and find the internal humidity is 23% and external is 44%...

    seems ok to me...

    I spoke with supervisor and customer and got them to understand that there was high humidity...
    honestly I said the words but I just couldn't grasp the concept...

    I sat down and thought about it and here is my best understanding let me know if I am off...

    if the humidity is high the paper curls...
    if it is low the paper thickens and jams...
    if paper is stored on floor... it is more likely to draw humidity...

    ac removes humidity from the air...
    if ac is turned off at nights... humidity builds
    if ac is not working properly... humidity builds...
    if a cold front comes through... this puts stress on ac... humidity builds...

    if possible raise temp of ac to compensate for building humidity...
    empty machine of paper at night to compensate for building humidity...
    only load paper still sealed when ready to print...
    use tray heaters if possible to compensate for building humidity...
    add a dehumidifier to the environment...
    store paper in an environment that reduces humidity in paper possibly a closet designed for that purpose...

    if machine says it has low relative humidity
    yet paper is humid and machine does not have tray heater...
    this heating could be a passive effect caused by the machine doing its thing...
    which would explain why the top of the stack of the paper left in the machine... has no jams... until it gets to print 20 sheets deep... the top layer would have dried out passively... while the rest would still retain the humidity... remember trays aren't sealed and the low humidity is a passive effect... so as the machine naturally dissipates the humidity... it draws more in... and the paper is sucking it up at a rate far higher than the passive dehumidifying effect... its also drying it out from the top of the stack... remember

    hot drier air is rising while the cold drier more humid air is moving to take its place...
    explaining what happens when you turn off the ac and the copier at nights and it gets humid inside the copier...

    if a tray heater was installed it would be drying it out from the bottom... in an active fashion...

    now if a copier is in a more humid environment than b copier and both have no tray heater... and copier b uses paper at the same rate as a... and uses the same paper and copier b is much better sealed... and has a much better passive dehumidifying effect... its possible that copier b could have less curl...

    thats my thoughts... let me know if any of this makes any sense...

    thanks...

    Last edited by n25an; 1 Week Ago at 03:20 AM.
    Sad To Say I Don't Have a Life
    I do this stuff on the weekends too

  2. #2
    Master Of The Obvious 10,000+ Posts
    low humidity ta 5501i

    blackcat4866's Avatar
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    Re: low humidity ta 5501i

    Accurate on all but one point: To make the AC run more (and get more dehumidification) you'd want to lower the setting on the thermostat (72F lowered to 66F).

    This may not be an issue for you, but the temperature differential of the paper can make a huge difference. Let's say that your MFP is in a temperature controlled 70F 20%H room, but the paper is stored at 20F 50%H in an unheated warehouse. For the first two days the paper jams and curls. Toward the end of the second day the paper has acclimated to the point of running properly. Every 5 days (Monday) the enduser brings in, let's say, 50 cases. It jams until Wednesday. Could we bring in the paper on Friday? Noooooo, of course not.
    =^..^=

    If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
    1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
    2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
    3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
    4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.


    blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

  3. #3
    Service Manager 1,000+ Posts
    low humidity ta 5501i

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    Re: low humidity ta 5501i

    Are you feeding LEF or SEF? It could be the fibers in paper.

    I have noticed that when not good quality paper is used on these machines, the paper is curling a lot on LEF.

    Same paper then turned upside down still LEF jams and curls less.

    When turned to SEF it stops curling or jamming.

    The above was tested countless times with paper without sealed packaging just 2500 sheets of A4 brown box. Cheap paper.

    Have you tried playing with loop adjustments?

    My closest analogy is, Ribbon curls. How you make ribbon to curl? By pinching part of ribbon with one hand (separation rollers) and pulling the rest of ribbon with other( vertical feed or registration)



    A/C is a bastard to work around.

    BlackCat has hit the nail on head within the last paragraph.

    Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

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  4. #4
    Senior Tech 250+ Posts
    low humidity ta 5501i

    n25an's Avatar
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    Re: low humidity ta 5501i

    got you on the ac change...

    lef... long edge feeding
    sef... short edge feeding...

    so try switching paper to short edge feeding this could help reduce curling...
    sounds good...

    I appreciate the feedback...

    Sad To Say I Don't Have a Life
    I do this stuff on the weekends too

  5. #5
    Service Manager 1,000+ Posts
    low humidity ta 5501i

    habik's Avatar
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    Re: low humidity ta 5501i

    Quote Originally Posted by n25an View Post
    got you on the ac change...

    lef... long edge feeding
    sef... short edge feeding...

    so try switching paper to short edge feeding this could help reduce curling...
    sounds good...

    I appreciate the feedback...
    Yes you got it right. We have customer who changed to cheap paper (recycled) and issues started happening. Changed orientation to SEF and problem gone 95%> Rest usually rollers and clutches. If you have high mileage on the machine above 1mil I can only recommend to replace all clutches and actuators.
    Also if you have access to Konica kit, use their feed rollers, last 100-180k instead of Kyocera 40-90k depending on paper used.

    Let us know your outcome.

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  6. #6
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    Re: low humidity ta 5501i

    Quote Originally Posted by habik View Post
    Yes you got it right. We have customer who changed to cheap paper (recycled) and issues started happening. Changed orientation to SEF and problem gone 95%> Rest usually rollers and clutches. If you have high mileage on the machine above 1mil I can only recommend to replace all clutches and actuators.
    Also if you have access to Konica kit, use their feed rollers, last 100-180k instead of Kyocera 40-90k depending on paper used.

    Let us know your outcome.

    Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

    i'm interested in the "konica kit".... can you provide the parts numbers? since i'm not familiar with konica but the kyocera feed rollers kind of sucks... Thank You!


  7. #7
    Service Manager 1,000+ Posts
    low humidity ta 5501i

    habik's Avatar
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    Re: low humidity ta 5501i

    Quote Originally Posted by mad View Post
    i'm interested in the "konica kit".... can you provide the parts numbers? since i'm not familiar with konica but the kyocera feed rollers kind of sucks... Thank You!
    Pick up roller Dark grey rubber ribbed.
    A5C1562200

    Feed and Sep roller orange translucent neoprene.
    A00J563600

    You'll love them. The great thing is that if you have the Kyocera modified feed units or at least the copper colour separation spring installed the rollers then last forever.
    Wish Konica did the same to get 200k out of them.

    Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

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  8. #8
    Technician Practic's Avatar
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    Re: low humidity ta 5501i

    Quote Originally Posted by n25an View Post
    yet paper is humid and machine does not have tray heater...
    Machine itself in base doesn't have tray heater, but there is an option PF-770 that has heater built in it.
    Not sure - if that works for you or not.


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