TA-8002 belt run off

[Ropariva]

Has anyone here had an unexplained transfer belt run off on the new 8002i?
Apparently there is a bulletin just out RE a rework of the belt but this doesn’t explain the problem we have just had with this machine even after fitting a reworked belt and firmware
Our client is a heavy user and has worn out an 8000 and a 8001 over the last 4 years putting around 20 million prints thru them.
The 8002 has been in since January and has done 2.2 million and has gone from kit to kit with no consumable failures apart from the usual MC-6720 failures every 200k (very frustrating they can’t make these rollers last their advertised life)
There is zero wear to be seen anywhere.
The machine for its new kit and 4000 pages later the new belt disintegrated. There was a tiny mark on the drum but I refitted the old belt and it ran ok for a couple of days.
Another tech attended when the new, new modified transfer belt arrived and it started to run off pretty much immediately
From there they tried a whole door assembly, new drum etc until the gave up and left the machine for the weekend. Apparently after the second drum was changed a piece of orange packing tape was found in the end of the drum, but this doesn’t explain why it would run off or why it still ran off with it removed...??

Anyway, after it had a rest for the weekend, the owner came in on Monday morning thinking it was all fixed and ran it.
By lunch time it had done 10k and at the end of the day 24k with no further issues. This is with the original belt that I took out when I did the kit. So this belt has done approx 630k prints and still going.
We have a new drum and transfer belt on the way.....
It’s going to be interesting to see what happens with this once fitted.
Any thoughts appreciated.
BTW, I’ve never had this happen to any of the previous machines on site or in the MIF.

[kjg]

Question? Were both replacement Transfer assemblies the new style ones? or just the second one installed? The fact that it does not track with the old one gets me to want to focus only on the transfer assemblies themselves. please keep us posted.

[blackcat4866]

I have a few high volume users, but not like yours (~2M per year), so I'll be interested in your results. The first thing that I noticed is that the exit switch hasn't been changed since the AlphardI and still wears out at the 1M mark. I get better mileage out of this MacGuyver:

Exit switch MacGuyver.JPG

=^..^=

[Ropariva]

I have a few high volume users, but not like yours (~2M per year), so I'll be interested in your results. The first thing that I noticed is that the exit switch hasn't been changed since the AlphardI and still wears out at the 1M mark. I get better mileage out of this MacGuyver:

Exit switch MacGuyver.JPG

=^..^=

Nice mod
Haven’t had to change switches yet but will keep this in mind.
News today is I’m out in the country and our other senior tech has returned with the new belt and drum and the belt has proceeded off the rollers straight away. So we still have an issue but less pressure with a loan machine on site, all be it a slower 4501
Hope to get my teeth into it tomorrow to see what’s causing a seemingly misaligned drum/belt. I don’t believe it’s wear and tear as every part of this machine looks brand new despite it 2 mill prints.

[Geo]

I have a few high volume users, but not like yours (~2M per year), so I'll be interested in your results. The first thing that I noticed is that the exit switch hasn't been changed since the AlphardI and still wears out at the 1M mark. I get better mileage out of this MacGuyver:

Exit switch MacGuyver.JPG

=^..^=

Your "MacGuyver is a brilliant quick fix. Used it many times.
Thanks again...

[sparkycivic]

Is the assembly sitting properly on in front of the spring loaded white buttons at the bottom, or on top? Maybe one of the buttons is stuck/busted?
I always have a hard time getting that assembly to end up in the right place in relation to those buttons...

[Ropariva]

Well,

Yesterday I ran 16,469 prints through this machine using different transfer door assemblies and belt assemblies.
I also put 7,188 pages through the newly purchased 8002i using the same assemblies and belts. Note, latest firmware is on both machines.

Observations
The new style belts run off to the rear much more readily than the old belts in the old machine.
There was no difference between old and new belts observed in the new machine. They all ran true and centred.
If a belt that was off to the rear by up to 10mm (the point where the belt hits the plastic frame) was fitted to the new machine, it would self centre within 100 prints or less and would remain in that position.
Any belt or door combination in the old machine would result in an almost immediate run off by a few mm to start with, slowly creeping towards the rear frame the more prints done. With the old style belt it took around 10k prints to run to striking point. The new belt took around 2k to creep across the same distance, consistent with the field findings.
When the old machine was in the field it was able to produce approximately 60k prints on the old belt after a rest over the weekend (don’t know what this did). Once the belt struck the rear side, the machine produced prints with voids from front to rear, if left longer, the belt would begin to tear eventually ending up shredded on the rear side.

Prior to yesterdays testing on the old machine, the drum drive and rear aligning bushing was removed, checked and measured against another low volume machine. Digital verniers were used for measurements. There was neither any observable or measurable wear. Alignment points from transfer belt to drum also showed no wear. I used some patting powder to try and show the pressure of the belt against the drum as well as show any misalignment. None was observable by eye.

Conclusion
Whatever the cause, the problem remains in the old machine and it is not a fault with the belt or door assemblies. I am also confident in ruling out the drum and other consumables as they were also changed with new items thru the initial fault finding. I also believe the packing found in the end of the second drum (fitted after the first belt shredded) has no bearing on the fault in this machine.
Right now, I cannot even speculate as to why this has occurred so suddenly after performing so brilliantly over the last seven months. Perhaps I’m looking at a bent frame? I really don’t have an answer for this. The machine has been in the same spot for seven months and has run 2.2 million pages almost totally trouble free.
As of now this machine is written off as we can’t return it to the client
If anyone sees anything like this in the field I would love to hear from them

[Phil B.]

could the machine be unlevel front to back?

[Ropariva]

could the machine be unlevel front to back?

Yeah....that’s kind of where I’m going to as well....
The 64thousand dollar question though is how?
It’s been on site for six months and produced 2 million pages and hasn’t moved. It’s also on a solid concrete floor, the same bit of floor the two previous machines sat on as they produced their 18 million prints
Yesterday morning we installed a replacement 8002i. All seemed well till mid afternoon. I get there and paper is everywhere. It’s been jamming all over the place..this is what I find


Both upper tray feed assemblies have zero spring tension on the rollers. Now, I’ve been finding this issue on field machines for a couple of years....but a brand new machine?? 🤬

[Geo]

As for the spring tension, I'm not surprised ...look at the date of manufacture and we don't know the age of the assemblies before installation, they could be several years old. Also, these springs are under constant pressure , are very weak and will deteriorate without use.