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  1. #1
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    5052ci 11x17 Double feed, not separating, tray 2

    Brand new install. Intermittent 2 or more 11x17 pages feeding at once through tray 2. I increased the separator spring tension (maxed out adjustment) and checked the torque limiter for resistance. Still intermittent double feed. Gonna head back to this customer's office on Monday. I'm thinking of increasing the tension even more, what do you all think?
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  2. #2
    Service Manager 1,000+ Posts tmaged's Avatar
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    Re: 5052ci 11x17 Double feed, not separating, tray 2

    You want less spring tension for more separation.
    Hope that helps !
    -Tony


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  3. #3
    Field Supervisor 500+ Posts
    5052ci 11x17 Double feed, not separating, tray 2


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    Re: 5052ci 11x17 Double feed, not separating, tray 2

    Quote Originally Posted by tmaged View Post
    You want less spring tension for more separation.

    This is the correct answer.

    If you have too much pressure on the sep roller the pressure causes the sep roller to turn with the feed roller letting the bottom sheet of paper feed too.

    Less pressure on the sep roller causes the sep roller to stay still so it holds onto the bottom sheet and keeps it from feeding.

  4. #4
    Master Of The Obvious 10,000+ Posts
    5052ci 11x17 Double feed, not separating, tray 2

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    Re: 5052ci 11x17 Double feed, not separating, tray 2

    Yes the others are correct.

    For the three roller feed system think of it this way: The more that you increase the spring tension the more the separation roller follows the feed roller, and the less actual page separation that you get. The less spring tension the less the separation roller follows the feed roller, and the more actual page separation that you experience.

    For the two roller and pad separation it's exactly the opposite.

    I know it's counter-intuitive. It took several times for me to get this right. =^..^=
    If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
    1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
    2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
    3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
    4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
    5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

    blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

  5. #5
    Field Supervisor 500+ Posts Geo's Avatar
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    Re: 5052ci 11x17 Double feed, not separating, tray 2

    Hi Backcat..

    So what degree of tension do you think would cause minimal wear on the retard roller? In my experience , the retard tends to get flat spots or generally half the life of the others.
    Your thoughts, PLEASE.

    Thanks Much

    Geo

  6. #6
    Master Of The Obvious 10,000+ Posts
    5052ci 11x17 Double feed, not separating, tray 2

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    Re: 5052ci 11x17 Double feed, not separating, tray 2

    Each feed unit adjusts uniquely. I have not seen a "formula", like always +1 increment or always -2 increments. If I notice that the separation has flattened early, I'll usually adjust only one increment tighter/less separation.

    I believe the flattening occurs when the separation roller spends a lot of time in one orientation/position, when it's never following the feed roller ... excessive separation.

    I am a strong believer in minimal separation. =^..^=
    If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
    1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
    2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
    3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
    4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
    5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

    blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

  7. #7
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    Re: 5052ci 11x17 Double feed, not separating, tray 2

    Quote Originally Posted by tmaged View Post
    You want less spring tension for more separation.
    Ahhh, less is more, thanks, got it.

  8. #8
    Field Supervisor 500+ Posts tsbservice's Avatar
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    Re: 5052ci 11x17 Double feed, not separating, tray 2

    This is not from Kyo manual but from KM manual, should be the same theory.

    Separation control

    The separator roller is driven via a torque limiter in a direction opposite the paper transport
    direction.
    The separator roller is pressed up against the paper feed roller by the pressure of a
    spring and an acting pressure generated from torque of the torque limiter.
    The acting pressure of the paper feed roller/separator roller/torque limiter serves as the
    limit torque for preventing double feed.
    When there is no sheet of paper or only one sheet of paper between the separator roller
    and paper feed roller, the limit torque is exceeded and the separator roller follows the
    rotation of the paper feed roller.
    If there are two or more sheets of paper between the separator roller and paper feed
    roller, the limit torque is greater than the friction force of the paper, so that the separator
    roller is rotated backward.
    The backward rotation of the separator roller causes the lower sheet of paper in contact
    with the separator roller to be pushed backward in the direction of the tray, so that the
    lower sheet of paper is properly separated.
    A tree is known by its fruit, a man by his deeds. A good deed is never lost, he who sows courtesy, reaps friendship, and he who plants kindness gathers love.

  9. #9
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    Re: 5052ci 11x17 Double feed, not separating, tray 2

    Ok here's the results thus far. I decreased the tension by each notch in the little metal spring holder until I was maxed out on the "least tension" setting. It got better but still out of 20 sheets, there were 2 occurrences of double feed on Ledger. I modified the spring holder to allow more of an adjustment and it worked.

    I think a better fix for this problem would be a lighter "softer" spring (which I did not have in my little box of tricks of springs and screws). Hopefully this holds up.

    My only concern is to see if this will create a flat spot on the sep roller because it barely spins with no paper between each roller.

    Thanks for all the input!

  10. #10
    Master Of The Obvious 10,000+ Posts
    5052ci 11x17 Double feed, not separating, tray 2

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    Re: 5052ci 11x17 Double feed, not separating, tray 2

    Quote Originally Posted by buzz View Post
    ...
    I think a better fix for this problem would be a lighter "softer" spring (which I did not have in my little box of tricks of springs and screws). Hopefully this holds up.

    My only concern is to see if this will create a flat spot on the sep roller because it barely spins with no paper between each roller.

    Thanks for all the input!
    #1) Yes, softer spring is an option.

    #2) Yes, flattening of the separation roller is always a risk/consequence. It just means that you'll have to replace the rollers more often. Consider it as a trade-off.

    Congratulations on your success. =^..^=
    If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
    1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
    2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
    3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
    4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
    5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

    blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

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