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  1. #1
    Service Manager 100+ Posts Claudio's Avatar
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    Outlet Voltage ( High, Low, or Fluctuating Voltages )

    Hello Everyone:
    I have more than ever, had issues where a customer's outlet voltage is either too low, too high, and/or fluctuating.
    The weirdest one I've seen a few years ago is a Minolta EP-9760 jamming. It turned out that the drum was turning in the wrong direction. It was not on a dedicated 20amp line and the voltage was fluctuating 112v~117v. When the copier would be unplugged and replugged, the copier would work ok for a few days.
    I've been doing this copier thing since 86' and I've had more of a mechanical mind, not as much electrical. Throughout the years, because of various service calls I've come to conclude anything below 117v is not good. Even if the voltage is 117v or above, but fluctuates below 117v can eventually be a problem. The machine may run good for up to a year, but eventually the voltage will cause the copier to crap out in any number of ways. I've had customers install dedicated lines for low voltage and after doing so, then ended up with 122v or higher (I've seen up to 127v). I heard from a board repair company that higher voltage is better than low voltage. Many customers don't believe me or they just don't take it seriously when I try to tell them their voltage is going to be an issue down the road if it is not corrected by an electrician. I've tried voltage regulators for low voltage and they don't work. They just bump up the volatage for a couple of seconds then drops back down for a few seconds. When the voltage is bumped up it makes a clicking noise which can annoy the customer. I have not tried a voltage regulator on high voltage to see if it filters out excess voltage.
    I have a few questions I would like to know for 120v, 15amp copiers - 20amp copier oviously need dedicated lines:
    1 ) At what voltage do you consider it low voltage?
    2 ) At what voltage do you consider it high voltage?
    3 ) Does anyone know if a voltage regulator will filter out excess voltage?
    4 ) On fluctuating voltage, how much fluctuatin do you think is ok?
    5 ) How much noise on Ground do you think is acceptable?
    6 ) Does anyone have any literature (short and generalized) that explains some of these questions I have?
    8 ) Which type of surge suppressors do you recommend and why?
    7 ) Does anyone recommend plugging these new copiers in those UPS Battery voltage back-ups?
    8 ) Also any personal experiences with voltage issues?
    I would like to read your responses, since what I know is only from personal experience and not necessarily fact. Your responsess will only add to the facts list of voltage issues and I'm sure will be usefull for a lot of us that use this forum.
    Thanks in advance.
    Claudio

  2. #2
    OMD-227
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    Get yourself a Dranetz machine.

    Oscilloscopes, Frequency Generators, RF Generators

    This will prove once and for all that the problem IS the power supply to the machine. Then you have overwhelming proof that the problem is the clients power supply, not your copier causing the problems. Its up to them to get it checked out. Otherwise, they will have problems with the machine. They are designed for a stable power supply, not a fluctuating one.

    The Dranetz will prove everything you need.

    Nevere put a copier on a UPS Backup device, but might be worth a shot. I'd only get a bigger one, like a 'Sola' branded one.

    Otherwise, read the post included above, as I detailed in it a few problems I've had in the past with fluctuating power.

  3. #3
    Master Of The Obvious 10,000+ Posts
    Outlet Voltage ( High, Low, or Fluctuating Voltages )

    blackcat4866's Avatar
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    Most manufacturers use the same specs: 120VAC +/- 10%

    That's 108 to 132VAC. But that's not the whole story. Ground to neutral must be less than 0.5VAC.

    I remember a service call on a Mita DC-4055, ~15 years ago. The customer had lost electrical service, and was attempting to run the entire building off a portable generator. The resulting power to the Mita was 89VAC, and miraculously it worked just fine other than the fact that LTR-R images were over 17" long. I think the main motor was expecting a little more juice. This was a bare bones analog. Digital copiers are not so tolerant.

    In real life, on digital equipment, momentary spikes or sags of 15% can cause MFPs to drop network connection, jam, and pull error codes. I have documented spikes over 400VAC before the surge suppressor. The only way to properly document these situations is to set up a power quality analyzer for a few days. =^..^=
    If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
    1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
    2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
    3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
    4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.


    blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

  4. #4
    OMD-227
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcat4866 View Post
    The only way to properly document these situations is to set up a power quality analyzer for a few days.

    Trust me, it works.
    Thats exactly what I said. If you can prove its the power, not the copier, let them keep having issues until the power issue is fixed. Not your problem. Thats how we see it anyways.

  5. #5
    Service Manager 1,000+ Posts
    Outlet Voltage ( High, Low, or Fluctuating Voltages )

    davidj7's Avatar
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    ive plugged in copier to UPS works fine. No issues .using Canon 3300's . for bigger machines UPS dosent justify the cost for me.

  6. #6
    Service Manager 100+ Posts Claudio's Avatar
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    Thanks for your info. regarding the voltage monitoring devices. They seem to be very expensive.

  7. #7
    Master Of The Obvious 10,000+ Posts
    Outlet Voltage ( High, Low, or Fluctuating Voltages )

    blackcat4866's Avatar
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    Our company rents then from a place in California. If I remember correctly, the last time was $75 for 30 days rental (includes shipping time both ways). I like the Fluke personally. The software is really easy to figure out for a technologically challenged individual, like me. =^..^=
    If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
    1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
    2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
    3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
    4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.


    blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

  8. #8
    OMD-227
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    We purchased the Dranetz outright, and it gets shipped around Australia on a regular basis, for wherever it is needed. It is worth the expense, as it has saved our butts so many times.

  9. #9
    Field Supervisor 500+ Posts
    Outlet Voltage ( High, Low, or Fluctuating Voltages )

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    power line monitor

    Quote Originally Posted by blackcat4866 View Post
    Our company rents then from a place in California. If I remember correctly, the last time was $75 for 30 days rental (includes shipping time both ways). I like the Fluke personally. The software is really easy to figure out for a technologically challenged individual, like me. =^..^=
    Whats the name of that company and whats the model that you rent???
    Sad To Say I Don't Have a Life
    I do this stuff on the weekends too

  10. #10
    Field Supervisor 500+ Posts
    Outlet Voltage ( High, Low, or Fluctuating Voltages )

    n25an's Avatar
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    dranetz

    Quote Originally Posted by wazza View Post
    We purchased the Dranetz outright, and it gets shipped around Australia on a regular basis, for wherever it is needed. It is worth the expense, as it has saved our butts so many times.
    whats the model??
    Sad To Say I Don't Have a Life
    I do this stuff on the weekends too

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