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  1. #1
    ALIEN OVERLORD 2,500+ Posts fixthecopier's Avatar
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    I hate it when you guess.

    Yes, that is what was said to me when I ask her to order a part and couldn't give a 100% guarantee that it would fix the issue. I bite my tongue a lot. It occurred to me later that our job sometimes is making the best guess. Even the service manuals do it. You have code xyz and the manual says change this, when that doesn't work change this and then that. If that doesn't work, check bulletins and call tech support so they can check the same bulletins you just checked.

    My problem is a KMBS 423 at a construction site that was jamming from both trays. The machine stays covered in dust. As most Konica techs would do, I changed the 1 way clutches. It fixed nothing. I then went for the electronic clutch on the rear of the assembly. We didn't have them and I ask her to order. That is when I got the statement. They didn't want me to remove an assembly from a working used machine just to test it. I lucked up and found an old Bz 42 with the same clutches. I changed them both and it fixed the tray 2 issue. I am still working on tray 1.

    I can't wait for them to build a copier and issue a manual that is cut and dry. Every problem has 1 guaranteed solution.

    Democracy is still the worst form of government, except for all the rest of them.

  2. #2
    Field Supervisor 500+ Posts
    I hate it when you guess.


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    Re: I hate it when you guess.

    Yea, I agree the manuals are a little vague. I think part of it is the language translation process. I look at the manual as a reference, to point me in right direction. Then I have to do some troubleshooting & detective work on my own. Damn wish it was easy as looking at a manual and start replacing parts listed! Would be replacing a lot of main boards, because that is always on the list

    I can't charge my customers for me guessing at parts or worse if it is under contract and losing profit paying for parts your not sure are going to fix it ! Fortunately I usually have a few parts machines to try parts from. I have even bought machines just for parts.

    I won't take a job if I can't give a firm price. If I'm wrong I have to eat it. Just the way I do business. Fortunately doesn't happen often.


  3. #3
    Geek Extraordinaire 2,500+ Posts KenB's Avatar
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    Re: I hate it when you guess.

    I've always looked at main controller boards this way: You replace them just to prove it's not the problem.

    Not that they don't go bad, because they sure do, but rarely is it the fix.

    More than I can count, I've seen techs order $1000 boards when the problem is a 79 cent photointerruptor.

    So, just when is this "old enough to know better" thing supposed to kick in?

  4. #4
    ALIEN OVERLORD 2,500+ Posts fixthecopier's Avatar
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    Re: I hate it when you guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by KenB View Post
    I've always looked at main controller boards this way: You replace them just to prove it's not the problem.

    Not that they don't go bad, because they sure do, but rarely is it the fix.

    More than I can count, I've seen techs order $1000 boards when the problem is a 79 cent photointerruptor.
    I agree, you swap boards because it is a variable. The tough call is on a lot of new machines, the board is married to the machine. No more guessing. No swapping with parts machines. We recently had a new e-machine from KMBS. Would not boot out of the box. We changed every board and firmware with tech support involved the whole way. Never got it to boot. Took them 2 weeks to agree to take it back and replace it. That would be a nightmare a few months old with my shop eating it.

    Democracy is still the worst form of government, except for all the rest of them.

  5. #5
    Service Manager 1,000+ Posts theengel's Avatar
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    Re: I hate it when you guess.

    Hey, it's part of the job. Most conceivable problems can be caused by a number of things, and you can't always tell something is bad by looking at it. You either start with the cheapest, the most common, or the easiest... or a combination of the three. I usually give a line something like this: "You've got a bad doohickey. Sometimes the board that controls the doohickey goes bad as well, but we won't know if it's bad until we get a working doohickey in there."

    You think we got it bad. Imagine being a doctor--they essentially do the same thing. Only they don't have a stock of old parts they can 'try.'


  6. #6
    Senior Tech 500+ Posts kuby's Avatar
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    Re: I hate it when you guess.

    Yea but we are different that doctors. If we don't fix it the first time, we don't charge them to come back and do it again. Try that with a doctor.


  7. #7
    Field Supervisor 1,000+ Posts subaro's Avatar
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    Re: I hate it when you guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by KenB View Post
    I've always looked at main controller boards this way: You replace them just to prove it's not the problem.

    Not that they don't go bad, because they sure do, but rarely is it the fix.

    More than I can count, I've seen techs order $1000 boards when the problem is a 79 cent photointerruptor.

    I think the above statement is right on the money. As techs we go through the decision making process each day to solve problems. The methods in one's troubleshooting will determine success. Many techs i know hates service manuals, when it's there to help them. The manuals are guides and not exacting, so the human analytical machine will take over in the final determination.
    The annoying problems where most of the time you do not require parts, but finding the mouse in the machine that is causing the squeek. NOISE

    The poster does have a valid point when referring to the non-exchange or swapping of board like in the Lexmarks and espcially when the boards are costly. I dislike when you cannot swap out a board

    THE ONLY THING FOR EVIL TO TRIUMPH IS FOR GOOD MEN TO DO NOTHING..........edmund burke

  8. #8
    Senior Tech 1,000+ Posts
    I hate it when you guess.

    mikadonovan's Avatar
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    Re: I hate it when you guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by fixthecopier View Post
    I can't wait for them to build a copier and issue a manual that is cut and dry. Every problem has 1 guaranteed solution.
    Jerry, if they did that then all the training and experience you have gained over the years that has turned you into a analytical machine-fixing superhuman would be wasted

    NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING

  9. #9
    Field Supervisor 1,000+ Posts subaro's Avatar
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    Re: I hate it when you guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikadonovan View Post
    Jerry, if they did that then all the training and experience you have gained over the years that has turned you into a analytical machine-fixing superhuman would be wasted

    Yeh, and buy kyocera. 3yrs bumper to bumper warranty, by then you may know most of the in and out of the machine. just a plug for kyocera here. Kyocera new lineup is a tech dream, only to see if they would hold up to the rigors of the likes of school boards districts.

    THE ONLY THING FOR EVIL TO TRIUMPH IS FOR GOOD MEN TO DO NOTHING..........edmund burke

  10. #10
    scrub 500+ Posts jmaister's Avatar
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    Re: I hate it when you guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by subaro View Post
    Yeh, and buy kyocera. 3yrs bumper to bumper warranty, by then you may know most of the in and out of the machine. just a plug for kyocera here. Kyocera new lineup is a tech dream, only to see if they would hold up to the rigors of the likes of school boards districts.
    The 2 series?

    Did they fix the fuser, the cheap paper cassette, and the consumables that dont last til rated?

    An idling develper is not a healthy developer.

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