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  1. #61
    Service Manager 1,000+ Posts theengel's Avatar
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    Re: How Russia hacked the Democrats email

    Quote Originally Posted by copier addict View Post
    Oooops, sorry, I missed that. Personally, I think most politics is humourous all by itself. It really doesn't need comedians. It is mostly rich people trying to make other rich people even richer, and trying to hide it. It is a joke that writes itself. lol
    On that, we can agree.

    Our difference comes in how we think it should be fixed. You seem to more or less accept the idea that the government should regulate things in order to 'level the playing field.' My contention is that the less the government interferes, the more chance the little guy has of beating Goliath.

    For example, think about our industry. Let's say the government imposed regulations on how we should handle waste toner. Here in America, it would probably come in the form of EPA regulations that impose mandatory inspections costing an insanely high amount of money. Like, they would say each bucket of toner being disposed should be inspected for $700 before you can do anything with it.

    Guys like me would be out of business, because there's no way I could afford it. I know it's a cost you pass off to customers, but the larger companies would be able to dilute that cost across their overhead--I wouldn't. It would ruin me, along with hundreds of other inde techs, and strengthen the big corporations.

    This is exactly what happens in hundreds of industries in America... including the farming industry, which I know you Canadians are dealing with right now (Monsanto).

    Less government intervention would eventually destroy companies like Monsanto, because countless small farmers would have their hand cuffs taken off. They could find new ways of battling the giant. Monsanto wouldn't be able to sue every small fry and keep them from growing their own seed.


  2. #62
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    Re: How Russia hacked the Democrats email

    Quote Originally Posted by theengel View Post
    On that, we can agree.

    Our difference comes in how we think it should be fixed. You seem to more or less accept the idea that the government should regulate things in order to 'level the playing field.' My contention is that the less the government interferes, the more chance the little guy has of beating Goliath.

    For example, think about our industry. Let's say the government imposed regulations on how we should handle waste toner. Here in America, it would probably come in the form of EPA regulations that impose mandatory inspections costing an insanely high amount of money. Like, they would say each bucket of toner being disposed should be inspected for $700 before you can do anything with it.

    Guys like me would be out of business, because there's no way I could afford it. I know it's a cost you pass off to customers, but the larger companies would be able to dilute that cost across their overhead--I wouldn't. It would ruin me, along with hundreds of other inde techs, and strengthen the big corporations.

    This is exactly what happens in hundreds of industries in America... including the farming industry, which I know you Canadians are dealing with right now (Monsanto).

    Less government intervention would eventually destroy companies like Monsanto, because countless small farmers would have their hand cuffs taken off. They could find new ways of battling the giant. Monsanto wouldn't be able to sue every small fry and keep them from growing their own seed.
    But without regulation greed and human nature take over and the environment gets ruined even faster than it is being ruined now. You have to keep an eye on these big corporations or they put money ahead of their responsibilities as human beings.


  3. #63
    Service Manager 1,000+ Posts theengel's Avatar
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    Re: How Russia hacked the Democrats email

    But the regulations don't stop them from doing that... the regulations only keep small business men from surviving. I'd bet my right arm that EVERY SINGLE regulation you can name, I can demonstrate how it helps big business by crippling small business. In my opinion, regulations are only there to eliminate competition and keep consumers in the dark.


  4. #64
    Service Manager 1,000+ Posts Phil B.'s Avatar
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    Re: How Russia hacked the Democrats email

    Quote Originally Posted by theengel View Post
    But the regulations don't stop them from doing that... the regulations only keep small business men from surviving. I'd bet my right arm that EVERY SINGLE regulation you can name, I can demonstrate how it helps big business by crippling small business. In my opinion, regulations are only there to eliminate competition and keep consumers in the dark.
    yup the advantages of being able to afford lobbyists! and that my friends is how Congressmen/Senators can retire as multi multi millionaires after only a few years in office and making only $175-250k a year!

    " Oh don't worry Joe... for $250,000 I will get your bill shoved thru .. no problemo!


  5. #65
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    Re: How Russia hacked the Democrats email

    Quote Originally Posted by theengel View Post
    But the regulations don't stop them from doing that... the regulations only keep small business men from surviving. I'd bet my right arm that EVERY SINGLE regulation you can name, I can demonstrate how it helps big business by crippling small business. In my opinion, regulations are only there to eliminate competition and keep consumers in the dark.
    It maybe doesn't stop all pollution, but it creates consequences for polluting. Without these regulations they wouldn't think twice about polluting your water. And Monsanto only sues farmers who sign an agreement not to replant seeds saved from products bought from them. I am not sticking up for Monsanto, but just clearing that up.


  6. #66
    Service Manager 1,000+ Posts theengel's Avatar
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    Re: How Russia hacked the Democrats email

    Oh wow... do some research on Monsanto and how they are affecting your industry.

    Anyway, companies don't think twice about polluting water now. Not the big ones anyway.

    But that's kind of a generality. Who can argue with it? We all want clean water and clean air.

    If you actually look at the legislation and the rules imposed by bureaucracies (the ones that specifically apply to specific industries) you start to see patterns. The rules are not there to protect the environment--they're there to squash the small guy.

    For example: the disposal of roofing material that contains asbestos. This is how it is in Ohio... I don't know how the laws apply nationally. But a local roofer can not just dispose of the asbestos roofing. A local resident can, but not a local roofer. And if a resident has a roofer replace their shingles, and then tries to dispose of them themselves, they are fined. A local resident can replace the shingles himself and dispose of them himself. But if he wants to hire a roofer, that roofer must get the asbestos 'inspected' before disposing of them. The fee to have it inspected and approved is really high--to the point that a small roofer cannot afford it because the cost is more than you could possibly pass off to one or two customers. But a big roofing company can pay the fee and easily become the ONLY company in an area to handle asbestos. And in the end, they don't do anything special to them. They are disposed of exactly the same way other roofing material is disposed.


  7. #67
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    Re: How Russia hacked the Democrats email

    Quote Originally Posted by theengel View Post
    Oh wow... do some research on Monsanto and how they are affecting your industry.

    Anyway, companies don't think twice about polluting water now. Not the big ones anyway.

    But that's kind of a generality. Who can argue with it? We all want clean water and clean air.

    If you actually look at the legislation and the rules imposed by bureaucracies (the ones that specifically apply to specific industries) you start to see patterns. The rules are not there to protect the environment--they're there to squash the small guy.

    For example: the disposal of roofing material that contains asbestos. This is how it is in Ohio... I don't know how the laws apply nationally. But a local roofer can not just dispose of the asbestos roofing. A local resident can, but not a local roofer. And if a resident has a roofer replace their shingles, and then tries to dispose of them themselves, they are fined. A local resident can replace the shingles himself and dispose of them himself. But if he wants to hire a roofer, that roofer must get the asbestos 'inspected' before disposing of them. The fee to have it inspected and approved is really high--to the point that a small roofer cannot afford it because the cost is more than you could possibly pass off to one or two customers. But a big roofing company can pay the fee and easily become the ONLY company in an area to handle asbestos. And in the end, they don't do anything special to them. They are disposed of exactly the same way other roofing material is disposed.
    I certainly wasn't defending Monsanto, I think they are scum, but if a farmer chooses to sign a contract stating he /she won't save and replant seeds then I guess Monsanto has the legal right to sue.
    Using asbestos as an example of over regulation was maybe a bad choice. The disposal of asbestos should be regulated to the hilt. It is dangerous stuff. I do see your point though. Having two sets of rules not a fair way to regulate. I don't think doing away with all regulation is the answer. That would give companies way too much ability to destroy the environment


  8. #68
    Service Manager 1,000+ Posts theengel's Avatar
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    Re: How Russia hacked the Democrats email

    You REALLY need to look more into Monsanto. They've shut down farmers who have never had anything to do with them.

    You miss the point about the asbestos. The regulations have nothing to do with safely disposing them. They're not created that way. They never were. Very few regulations are. If you go through the wording, it's easy to spot. It's all about money--not about safety.


  9. #69
    Service Manager 1,000+ Posts theengel's Avatar
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    Re: How Russia hacked the Democrats email

    As a side note: this is why conservatives are often skeptical of liberal claims that certain things are harming the environment. Because the liberal answer is to pass regulation, which, in EVERY case, creates a barrier that small business is unable to get over, but which strengthens big business. If liberals were so much against big business, they wouldn't be passing the laws they pass. So as a conservative, when I see chronie (spelling) capitalism, I begin to question the motives behind it.


  10. #70
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    Re: How Russia hacked the Democrats email

    Quote Originally Posted by theengel View Post
    As a side note: this is why conservatives are often skeptical of liberal claims that certain things are harming the environment. Because the liberal answer is to pass regulation, which, in EVERY case, creates a barrier that small business is unable to get over, but which strengthens big business. If liberals were so much against big business, they wouldn't be passing the laws they pass. So as a conservative, when I see chronie (spelling) capitalism, I begin to question the motives behind it.
    The main barrier we contend with is when conservative governments reduce taxes for the big corporations, that money has to come from somewhere and it always comes from the little companies.


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