Gun Control

[Darren King]

The Swiss males at the age of 20 are required to take military training and are issued a sig 550 assualt rifle. Fully auto. When they leave the service at age 30 they can turn in their rifle or keep it. If they wish to keep it then it is sent to the factory and is made semi auto only. Maybe it was a stretch to say every household had a gun. But just about all with males living in them do. The gun owner ship rate in their country is 45.7 for every 100 population. Here in the states it is about 85 per 100. They are 4th in the world. the article says there gun deaths are so low they don't keep stats.

This was from a Snopes article. Hope everything you read on the internet is true. LOl.

OK Darren , there you go.

I actually believe very little I read on the internet, this thread included. lol. However you failed to mention one thing.

"In October 2007, the Swiss Federal Council decided that the distribution of ammunition to soldiers shall stop and that all previously issued ammo shall be returned. By March 2011, more than 99% of the ammo has been received. Only special rapid deployment units and the military police still have ammunition stored at home today".

This little fact could be why there is no gun violence.
How's that MrBill? lol

[Akitu]

Got into a heated debate with a co-worker inre..guns. He thinks guns should be banned, period, for all non military/police US citizens..As a supporter of the 1st ammendment I support his right to hold this opinion, however, I think he's an idiot...


I am not a drug runner/ dealer, nor am I involved in any organized crime so therefore, I would never expect to be in a situation where multiple bad guys with fully automatic weapons are after me..Not saying it couldn't happen, but the possibility is very low...I also don't believe the average US citizen should be allowed to own a true military style fully automatic weapon. I don't own any weapons, but I do occasionaly get the oppourtuntity to go to the range and do a little target shooting, we shoot 9mm, .38, .22 cal and 223 ARs and .360s. The latter 3 all look just like the media's description of "assault weapons", but, reflecting back on my Navy days and having to qualify using truly "full auto" weapons, I can assure they are not. They are excellent weapons for target shooting, hunting, and maybe some close in defense, but against a well armed Mexican cartel, the Mafia, or a paramilitary group they are pretty useless. So here's my opinion....

The 2nd ammendment gives us the right to bear arms...I don't think the founding fathers really meant for us to use this right to defend ourselves against a "Crazed" government, the mob, or the cartel, but to protect us from the average criminal with the same type of weapons. No amount of executive orders are going to stop the insane, but determined bad guy from shooting up a mall, church, school. If you have enough money, or the skills to steal one you can obtain what you want. What banning guns from the average US citizen will do is make it impossible for that same average US citizen to defend him/herself from that average criminal. So, possibly in the future, if guns are banned, the average criminal that wants to rob you at gunpoint will have nothing to worry about..You no longer are leagaly able to own that little handgun that may have saved you, or a friend/family members life...If we had banned the manufacture of guns around the time of the musket, then maybe this would be a piontless discussion today, but we didn't.
Background checks OK, I'm even OK with banning private sales, to easy to fool the seller. Previous problems with the law?? OK, no gun. A little mentally unstable?? Certainly, no gun for you (Soup Nazi style).
But, if you are a law abiding, responsible US citizen, then if you want a gun, then I'm Ok with it. EMujo

Your statement seems to be what my thoughts on the other post were attempting to say. Well put.

Matter of fact, after getting the time to read through it all, a lot of the points in here were some that I was trying to make previously. Mayhaps I was too opinionated from coming from a not so happy past few weeks and I do apologize. I'm a fan of open discussions.

[SalesServiceGuy]

Nobody is proposing that all guns are to be banned. The US gov't is not proposing that. The proposal is for the elimination of high capacity ammo clips, restrictions on who can purchase assault style weapons, closing gun show and private sale loopholes and more background checks.

The gun manufacturers experienced falling sales as many fewer people live in rural America, the traditional base of long gun sales. Gun manufacturers with the help of the NRA reinvigorated guns sales with a long term marketing campaign aimed at urban people that appealed to those seeking military style weapons and specs. I expect that many people after a year or two will wonder why did they ever purchase that over priced weapon that they will likely rarely use.

The last five years have been a golden age for gun and ammo manufacturers. I wish they could do the same for the copier industry!

[blackbooger]

Ok so limiting magazine capacity and banning so called assault rifles will make the criminals give up their weapons right? This will never happen, a criminal does not obey laws.......obviously. Look I respect the rights of people who do not wish to own a weapon. I wish you could respect my right to own my weapons no matter magazine size or style of weapon. Just because you are inexperienced with guns does not mean they are evil. I have a ccw to protect myself and my family along with innocent would be victims. I also respect businesses that say I can not have a weapon on their property by never visiting that business again. And for all of you that keep crying about ar15s being assault weapons please educate yourselves. An ar15 is a semi automatic rifle. Just because it looks like a military assault weapon doesn't mean it is. If I put a Lamborghini body on a pinto frame does that make it a sports car? Oh and ar does not mean assault rifle it is for armalite.

[Shadow1]

Nobody is proposing that all guns are to be banned. The US gov't is not proposing that. The proposal is for the elimination of high capacity ammo clips, restrictions on who can purchase assault style weapons, closing gun show and private sale loopholes and more background checks.

Look back at post #43 and actually read the Special Forces letter on the subject all the way through - you'll note that switching out lower capacity mags adds approximately 6 seconds to the shooting spree. It is also common for competition shooters to change mags in a 1911 style pistol (100 year old technology) and squeeze off the first aimed shot from the new mag before the last casing of the old mag hits the ground. Exactly what will a limit on magazine capacity get you?

Too lazy to see which thread I posted these on, so I'll repost it for reference:
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The gun manufacturers experienced falling sales as many fewer people live in rural America, the traditional base of long gun sales. Gun manufacturers with the help of the NRA reinvigorated guns sales with a long term marketing campaign aimed at urban people that appealed to those seeking military style weapons and specs. I expect that many people after a year or two will wonder why did they ever purchase that over priced weapon that they will likely rarely use.

So the gun grabbing liberals are secret members of the NRA? Conspiracy theories and heavy drug use don't mix well...

The last five years have been a golden age for gun and ammo manufacturers. I wish they could do the same for the copier industry!

Assault Copier!!! Fully automatic paper cuts!

Akitu, can you photoshop us a picture of a copier with a folding stock, detachable high capacity toner magazine, and a forearm grip?

[DAG COPIERS & COMPUTERS]

In my country Uganda it is criminal offense tantamount to TREASON for a civilian to be in possession of any gun, be it assault rifle, semi-automatic, pistol or whatever name you give it! The gun is strictly property of the government for use by the army, police & other security agencies. The citizens are fully aware of these laws. This doesn't mean that these weapons sometimes don't land into the hands of criminals, thugs and other wrong elements in the society. But the laws are so strict and rigid that when you are found in illegal possession of firearm you could be tried in a military court.....since in effect you are 'now' an army man. Of course there are some licensed guns with certain civilians, but these are the ''Creme-DE la-Creme" members of the society. But even then they undergo rigorous background checks, and MUST show CONCRETE proof that their lives are constantly in danger, for the government to grant them the firearm license.

[DAG COPIERS & COMPUTERS]

To ADD to that there are NO shops here authorized or licensed to sell guns. The few licensed civilians who posses the guns DO NOT EVEN OWN the guns. Both the license and the guns are issued out to the individuals by the Police department, and remains property of the state. The weapon can also be retrieved from the individual and the license revoked at anytime of the day as deemed fit by the Police. That is how 'Gun control' works in my country. May be the Americans can 'pick a leaf' from us and use to 'modify' their own gun control laws.

[SalesServiceGuy]

Since the Newtown massacre in Dec., 1543 US citizens have been murdered by gun homicide.

Gun-death tally: Every American gun death since Newtown Sandy Hook shooting (INTERACTIVE). - Slate Magazine

People still have the right to own as many guns as they want. What we're debating is which kind of guns they can get and what procedures they'll have to follow to get them.

A gun in your home is many times more likely to be used to kill one of the people in that home, be used in a suicide, or result in an accidental death than it is to be wielded against an intruder.

What gun advocates say is that we all need to put ourselves and our families in danger to prepare for the home invasion that is the equivalent of being struck by lightning. According to the FBI, in the entire country in 2011 there were just 201 justifiable homicides committed with guns by private citizens. There are over 300 million guns in America, which means that about 1 out of every 1.5 million guns was actually used for lethal self-defense. According to the National Weather Service, your chance of being hit by lightning this year is a mere 1 in 1 million.

[fixthecopier]

In my country Uganda it is criminal offense tantamount to TREASON for a civilian to be in possession of any gun, be it assault rifle, semi-automatic, pistol or whatever name you give it! The gun is strictly property of the government for use by the army, police & other security agencies. The citizens are fully aware of these laws. This doesn't mean that these weapons sometimes don't land into the hands of criminals, thugs and other wrong elements in the society. But the laws are so strict and rigid that when you are found in illegal possession of firearm you could be tried in a military court.....since in effect you are 'now' an army man. Of course there are some licensed guns with certain civilians, but these are the ''Creme-DE la-Creme" members of the society. But even then they undergo rigorous background checks, and MUST show CONCRETE proof that their lives are constantly in danger, for the government to grant them the firearm license.

Dag, I will admit that maybe the times have changed, but I remember your countries recent history, and military dictators, and must say that you are not helping the argument for gun control. In America, your country would be used as a poster child for justifying why everybody should have guns. The most recent stories of your country are about putting people to death for being gay. Based on that , I think we should start a charity to sent assault weapons to all of the gays in Uganda.

In contrast to the description you gave of your country gun laws, let me tell you where I live. The military base I work on is one of the largest in the world. You can assume that every man and woman on that base of 70,000 plus people have weapon training. You can also assume that almost all of them have private weapons in their own homes. As a large part of the civilian population used to be in the military, they also have weapons in their home. As a matter of fact, if I think about it, i would assume that almost every house I pass has guns in it, unless they had to sell them to pay a bill. Guns are as good as cash in this and most American homes. Now I consider myself an independent person as far as politics go, which means the far right would consider me a flaming liberal, and right now I have 2 pistols, 2 rifles, and a shotgun in my house. My wife has a cousin who is considered a far right wing gun nut, lovingly of course, and he has assault rifles and last week stated he had enough ammo to last the rest of his life. My 71 year old mother keeps a double barrel shot gun by her front door and she is as liberal as they come. In this country I do not believe that it will come down to guns vs no guns, just regulating what we have. In this country, a far left liberal may have a closet full of shotguns, and just feel that handguns should be regulated.

I didn't want to get into this discussion but when I compare the history of my country to yours, I feel much safer here. It does not bother me to see assault weapons on tables at flea markets, or that there are 40 to 60 stores in this town where i can buy guns. And even with 70,000 troops next door to me , I do not fear the army will take over my town.

What does bother me in this country is that if you are mentally ill, you get guns today, but until you hurt someone, it could take weeks or months to get mental health care. And yes I do believe my country is full of a bunch of nuts who feel that a gun makes a little man into a big one and dream of the wild wild west.

[DAG COPIERS & COMPUTERS]

Dag, I will admit that maybe the times have changed, but I remember your countries recent history, and military dictators, and must say that you are not helping the argument for gun control. In America, your country would be used as a poster child for justifying why everybody should have guns. The most recent stories of your country are about putting people to death for being gay. Based on that , I think we should start a charity to sent assault weapons to all of the gays in Uganda.

In contrast to the description you gave of your country gun laws, let me tell you where I live. The military base I work on is one of the largest in the world. You can assume that every man and woman on that base of 70,000 plus people have weapon training. You can also assume that almost all of them have private weapons in their own homes. As a large part of the civilian population used to be in the military, they also have weapons in their home. As a matter of fact, if I think about it, i would assume that almost every house I pass has guns in it, unless they had to sell them to pay a bill. Guns are as good as cash in this and most American homes. Now I consider myself an independent person as far as politics go, which means the far right would consider me a flaming liberal, and right now I have 2 pistols, 2 rifles, and a shotgun in my house. My wife has a cousin who is considered a far right wing gun nut, lovingly of course, and he has assault rifles and last week stated he had enough ammo to last the rest of his life. My 71 year old mother keeps a double barrel shot gun by her front door and she is as liberal as they come. In this country I do not believe that it will come down to guns vs no guns, just regulating what we have. In this country, a far left liberal may have a closet full of shotguns, and just feel that handguns should be regulated.

I didn't want to get into this discussion but when I compare the history of my country to yours, I feel much safer here. It does not bother me to see assault weapons on tables at flea markets, or that there are 40 to 60 stores in this town where i can buy guns. And even with 70,000 troops next door to me , I do not fear the army will take over my town.

What does bother me in this country is that if you are mentally ill, you get guns today, but until you hurt someone, it could take weeks or months to get mental health care. And yes I do believe my country is full of a bunch of nuts who feel that a gun makes a little man into a big one and dream of the wild wild west.

Well, development is a gradual process, may be in time to come we in our country shall also be able to see as many guns 'everywhere' as you people do there. And by the way what concrete PROPOSALS have you as an individual, concerned citizen laid on the table to help your government re-formulate laws to regulate 'Gun usage?'. Political developments are dynamic, the political history of my country you know about is now a thing of the past, but we took our lessons right. Just like you the Americans learn t your lessons right from the ''War of Independence'' from Britain in 1776. IT is part of the ''March to Civilization'' of Humanity. No big deal about that, with time every nation finds itself at certain levels of political, social & economic development.