MP171 add toner message and not turning bottle

[Desert Rat]

Has anyone seen this before; the machine is asking for toner, they got some advice to replace the toner hopper.
They called me to install it, OK. It did not fix the problem. I installed the hopper and a bottle of toner. Held the interlock
switch in so I could watch the bottle turn. It turned once may be twice. And the message remains.
Pull the bottle out to watch the drive, it turns. It seems to have enough torque to turn the bottle.
Put bottle in and watch. The back end of the bottle started moving up and down but just a little.
So I grab the toner bottle drive and it feels fairly solid.
So what gives? One time I forgot to pull the green handle down and the bottle turned a couple of times
Pull the handle down and it's like it pulls the bottle away from the drive.

Any one seen this before I tear it's little heart out?

DR

[davel]

Re: MP171 add toner message and not turning bottle

Make sure you have MP 171 toner supply unit and 171 toner, if customer supplied unit they may have got unit for MP 301.

[slimslob]

Re: MP171 add toner message and not turning bottle

I have encountered numerous toner bottles that are a few millimeters short. Remove the paper exit tray and observer the toner bottle that way. If it is not turning properly, push it back slightly and it will start turning.

[Iowatech]

Re: MP171 add toner message and not turning bottle

On older versions of that chassis I've seen the bottle drive clutch wear out. If that's the case, it's pretty easy to see too. Just look for the brown dust of electromagnetic clutch death around the bottle drive coupling, if it is there, change the clutch and your done.

[mongo]

Re: MP171 add toner message and not turning bottle

If its turn to starts with and stop with the tone light still solid and add toner in the display. I would check the PCU gears because it will not keep adding if the VT or VSP does not change because the developer gears are strip.

[sandmanmac]

Re: MP171 add toner message and not turning bottle

Aficio MP 1515 toner also looks very similar to MP 161/171/201 toner bottle.

Very similar, because they all use Type 1170D

[zed255]

Re: MP171 add toner message and not turning bottle

There's a fairly common issue with these units and their brethren.

If someone managed to screw up adding toner by leaving an old inner cap in the hopper chuck, tried to install a toner without removing the external cap or failed to properly engage the new bottle with the hopper chuck then the bottle will be pushed further back than normal. When the unit tries to turn the bottle the load will be higher than normal and the drive shaft can get twisted and stuck in the clutch in the most rearward possible position. Once the issue with the bottle and hopper are remedied the bottle won't turn at all or only gets very intermittent drive.

There is a plastic piece that drives the bottle through the clutch. DO NOT be tempted to 'tap' on it from the back of the machine to remove it as you are very likely to snap off the part of the frame that holds the toner drive clutch. The main plastic frame is not order-able as a service part. The only reliable method I have come up with in dealing with the above mentioned issue, if this ends up being your problem, is to clip off the head of the drive shaft - the part that engages the bottle - and drive the remaining shaft from the front out the back. I've had to do this quite a few times and have seen co-workers brick a machine by trying to go back to front to 'save a little time'.

In a nut shell:

1) Open front door and remove toner hopper
2) Remove inner 'exit' cover
3) Clip off the 'wings' of the drive shaft
4) Turn the spring as far over the clipped shaft head as you can and get your cutters on the shaft behind the spring, area you just exposed and clip off the remainder of the shaft head with the spring on it
5) Use an old web shaft or long screwdriver to engage the remaining shaft and tap using a small hammer to push the damaged shaft out the rear of the machine
6) Install a new shaft and reassemble. The clutch is generally OK and I have never replaced it as a result of this type of failure.

[Chicko]

Re: MP171 add toner message and not turning bottle

ok few things to check

1) PCU/ Imaging unit dev gears. Those tend to break and will cause a toner / light copies problem.

2) Hopper unit blocked. Vacuum unit and check if toner flows out.

3) Toner feed clutch is gone. This seems like your most likely fault. Mark the bottle, close the machine, go into sp modes and do a forced toner feed if possible. Do that about 3 times, if your bottle doesnt turn but the machine is cycling then you need to change that clutch.

4) Main Board is faulty because it took a power surge / spike or some sort of electrical fault. This is the least likely and a last option.

I would say check (1) first then try (3)

[Desert Rat]

Re: MP171 add toner message and not turning bottle


Wow, thanks for all the great advice. If I can't fix it with all everyone has
given, then I need to look for another type of work.

I did pull the drum and dev and check the drive on the DV unit. I have seen that on
other Ricohs where the drive gear just splits. This is not the case. I have seen the
toner bottle drive turn, I grabbed it and it feels strong enough to turn the bottle. It
just needs to engage.
So now I'm down to the shaft through the clutch being jammed.
I will save this post to use at the customers.

Thanks everyone for all the replies
I guess I'm not alone after all.

DR

[Coptech]

Re: MP171 add toner message and not turning bottle

The spring loaded bottle turn shaft goes through a hole in the rear frame in a "D shaped" recessed area and is held on by one of the little cheesy plastic c clips. The D shape it for the shape of that clip. It is possible that the shaft gets pushed into the machine too far and the clip rotates and will not go back into it's recessed home preventing it from springing forward enough to reach the bottle

[Desert Rat]

Re: MP171 add toner message and not turning bottle


Here's the scoop.

I took the cover off and got the back cover off. The clip was not preventing it from
returning to home position. It's just bound up to the point where I had to use my
crescent wrench for hammer and a nut drive bit to tap, no lightly pound it out enough
to engage the bottle. The shaft is just bound up in the hole. I tried to get some air through
the hole to blow it out, no good. Tried a drop of tri flow oil, that seemed to help, but not much.
It makes a little noise but it works. I feel that over time that shaft will snap. May be it will be easier
to fix at that point.
Meanwhile the customer is glad to have a month long problem solved.

DR

[Polarbear]

Re: MP171 add toner message and not turning bottle

Desert Rat

Like someone said before, the shaft of the toner drive is "D" shaped. If the shaft is turned by force of the toner supply clutch, but the shaft is held in place it will twist out of position, and this will cause the supply shaft to jam in place and not move freely by the pressure of the spring.

When you push the front side (the side that engages the bottle) of the toner supply shaft towards the back of the machine, it should pop back without delay. If it doesn't it has twisted and will cause a callback in the future.

Not a nice job to replace (as stated in a previous post) but a necessary evil, if you want the machine to be reliable.

[Desert Rat]

Re: MP171 add toner message and not turning bottle

Polarbear,
You are 100% right, that shaft will eventually wear out and snap.
At which point the customer will have to decide what to do about it.
Repair or replace. They have already mentioned that they were considering
replacing machines. This is a big company with offices in other states.
I already made the suggestion that they need a beefier machine. Something
around 35pgs/min.
If they want to fix it, I would have to get a long drill bit and drill it out. Then
tap out whats left.
If worst comes to worst I will let the customer go "Office Space" on the
little beast.

DR

[slimslob]

Re: MP171 add toner message and not turning bottle

Polarbear,
You are 100% right, that shaft will eventually wear out and snap.
At which point the customer will have to decide what to do about it.
Repair or replace. They have already mentioned that they were considering
replacing machines. This is a big company with offices in other states.
I already made the suggestion that they need a beefier machine. Something
around 35pgs/min.
If they want to fix it, I would have to get a long drill bit and drill it out. Then
tap out whats left.
If worst comes to worst I will let the customer go "Office Space" on the
little beast.

DR

I have never had them snap. They will bind to where you cannot get them to move.

[ESTANISLAOWENENTON]

It has happened to me in two cases:First toner cartridge was shorter sulucion ?change the cartridg
esecond cases
prockets development unit were totally worn not spun or mixed so not fed toner .


It has happened to me in two cases:First toner cartridge was shorter sulucion ?change the cartridge second cases prockets development unit were totally worn not spun or mixed so not fed toner .