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  1. #1
    teetime
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    Hidden Page Count - HELP - MPC3003 - Are we being scammed - We are a church

    I am reaching out for our church. In short, I believe the service tech company is taking advantage of the church.
    In short, they are saying we are printing astronomical numbers of copies when there is almost no way this could be happening.

    The printer copy number are registering what we are being charged. Sometimes 200 color copies a day.

    I was thinking they may have set us up for a click count, but before I could check today, they sent out a service tech to
    "mess" with the printer.

    Is there anyway to access a hidden page count or click count? We pay per page.

    They have us printing over 1000 color copies a month and 3000 b & w a month. Other than someone sneaking in and running
    copies, it just doesn't seem possible.

    Any help would be appreciated.

  2. #2
    Field Supervisor 500+ Posts
    Hidden Page Count - HELP - MPC3003 - Are we being scammed - We are a church


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    Re: Hidden Page Count - HELP - MPC3003 - Are we being scammed - We are a church

    Set up user codes and at the end of the month you can see exactly how many pages each user printed.
    in addition you can access user tools/ counter any day you like and print out a page with the date and current meter readings.
    very easy for you to keep track of this.

  3. #3
    How'd ya manage that? 1,000+ Posts
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    Re: Hidden Page Count - HELP - MPC3003 - Are we being scammed - We are a church

    The meter reads on Ricoh devices can't be modified.

    The devices does however come from the factory set to click on 'developments' and not pages, so one needs to look at the counter under 'User Tools / Counter' and ensure it is not indicating in developments. If it is clicking in developments then the click rate will be much higher than it would be in pages. This can be changed in the machines service mode by the technician.

    Should your service company actually be scamming you then look for a new service provider.

  4. #4
    Copier Combobulator 500+ Posts
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    Re: Hidden Page Count - HELP - MPC3003 - Are we being scammed - We are a church

    Quote Originally Posted by zed255 View Post
    The meter reads on Ricoh devices can't be modified.

    The devices does however come from the factory set to click on 'developments' and not pages, so one needs to look at the counter under 'User Tools / Counter' and ensure it is not indicating in developments. If it is clicking in developments then the click rate will be much higher than it would be in pages. This can be changed in the machines service mode by the technician.

    Should your service company actually be scamming you then look for a new service provider.
    Starting with the C3002 the default is prints not developments. The service manual for the C3003 states that it's default is prints. Additionally the meter sheet would say developments if it was set to development count and not print count. While it can be changed in SP mode it can only be changed ONCE.

    Quote Originally Posted by teetime View Post
    I am reaching out for our church. In short, I believe the service tech company is taking advantage of the church.
    In short, they are saying we are printing astronomical numbers of copies when there is almost no way this could be happening.

    The printer copy number are registering what we are being charged. Sometimes 200 color copies a day.

    I was thinking they may have set us up for a click count, but before I could check today, they sent out a service tech to
    "mess" with the printer.

    Is there anyway to access a hidden page count or click count? We pay per page.

    They have us printing over 1000 color copies a month and 3000 b & w a month. Other than someone sneaking in and running
    copies, it just doesn't seem possible.

    Any help would be appreciated.
    There is no way to change the meter upward. The machines internal counter is the same as what the machine prints out from the user tools menu.

    Some things to keep in mind: If you PRINT from your computer and the printer driver is set to color instead of black and white you will be charge a color click regardless of the actual color content of the page. I believe the default setting in the driver is color and not black and white. If you COPY at the machine and the machine is set to full color you will be charged a color click regardless of the color content of the page. If the machine is set to auto color select and you make a copy of something and there is color on the page, even if it's just a small amount the machine will likely detect it and print in color and you will be charged a color click. Any time paper comes out of the machine you will be charged a click for it. The only exceptions are paper that jammed before exiting, counter sheets, and prints from technician service mode.

    As someone else suggested you should enable user code restrictions on the machine and give each person using it their own code. You can use this to restrict who can print in color as well if you'd like. You can also use this to prevent anyone from PRINTING to the machine unless a user code has been programmed into the printer driver. This should tell you who or what is making so many copies/prints. How to do this is described in the user manual which is also available on ricohs website. It isn't hard to enable but if you have trouble you can probably get your service company to help you with it.

    You could also start printing counter sheets at the end of every day and that would help you determine what days are having high usage.

    You may well find that someone is printing off a bunch of personal things on the church printer.

  5. #5
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    Re: Hidden Page Count - HELP - MPC3003 - Are we being scammed - We are a church

    Agree with Zed, it might be set for developments. If you go to user tools, counter and print out a count page see if it says developments. A few of those left Japan that way, or if it is used, previous owner may have requested paying by developments. Also, lots of church bulletins are run on 11x17 (ledger) paper. Each side of those counts as 2 copies, so if you are double siding (duplexing) this paper, that is 4 copies worth for each.

    There is no "hidden" meters. It would be illegal and immoral to cheat this way and I doubt any business would want to try to do it. The best way to check is to print a counter sheet, make a color copy and print another counter sheet, color should increase by a count of 1, if it don't, call your vendor, and do the same in front of them. As was mentioned set up accounting codes. Most people don't realize that printing off 200 color Christmas pages cost the church around $12-15.

    Honest mistakes do happen and every now and then they are set to developments, happens to us about 2xyr that we find one and correct the mistake.

    Why would people pay by developments? Suppose you print a lot of emails, the links are cyan blue. Word docs have a lot of highlited yellow. It is a cheaper way of printing color if you only use one development for the color. That is a secret of the industry, not too many salesmen reveal this and not too many customers know it.
    I've proved mathematics wrong. 1 + 1 doesn't always equal 2.........


    Especially when it comes to sex

  6. #6
    teetime
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    Re: Hidden Page Count - HELP - MPC3003 - Are we being scammed - We are a church

    [QUOTE=sturmtrooper;589712]Starting with the C3002 the default is prints not developments. The service manual for the C3003 states that it's default is prints. Additionally the meter sheet would say developments if it was set to development count and not print count. While it can be changed in SP mode it can only be changed ONCE.

    This intrigues me. The count was normal for the longest time and then all of a sudden it too huge jumps (in sum, we had the printer for 4 years and it says we have done 55,000 color copies and 140,000 B&W. We are a very small church. Just yesterday the service tech did a surprise stop and was messing around with the counter. But didn't say anything was out of order. Problem is, he was supposed to schedule a visit, with me there. Therefore, a part of me is questioning whether he changed the counter from clicks to pages yesterday. Is there anyway to tell what changes are made?

  7. #7
    Service Manager 1,000+ Posts fshead's Avatar
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    Re: Hidden Page Count - HELP - MPC3003 - Are we being scammed - We are a church

    [QUOTE=teetime;589719]
    Quote Originally Posted by sturmtrooper View Post
    Starting with the C3002 the default is prints not developments. The service manual for the C3003 states that it's default is prints. Additionally the meter sheet would say developments if it was set to development count and not print count. While it can be changed in SP mode it can only be changed ONCE.

    This intrigues me. The count was normal for the longest time and then all of a sudden it too huge jumps (in sum, we had the printer for 4 years and it says we have done 55,000 color copies and 140,000 B&W. We are a very small church. Just yesterday the service tech did a surprise stop and was messing around with the counter. But didn't say anything was out of order. Problem is, he was supposed to schedule a visit, with me there. Therefore, a part of me is questioning whether he changed the counter from clicks to pages yesterday. Is there anyway to tell what changes are made?

    Church or no church this guy already comes off as a TOOL,as he wants to think the tech is playing with the counters.
    Unless the tech is the guy getting paid he has no interests in cheating the almighty Church,,
    if you are that concerned why not ask the company,not here

  8. #8
    Field Supervisor 500+ Posts
    Hidden Page Count - HELP - MPC3003 - Are we being scammed - We are a church


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    Re: Hidden Page Count - HELP - MPC3003 - Are we being scammed - We are a church

    By your numbers, 200 pages per day is not a lot of printing for a church.
    As others have mentioned a 2 sided 11x17 would be 4 clicks right there.

  9. #9
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    Re: Hidden Page Count - HELP - MPC3003 - Are we being scammed - We are a church

    Quote: This intrigues me. The count was normal for the longest time and then all of a sudden it too huge jumps


    I'm guessing the "huge" jump occurred before the tech was there. So it probably means the elves in the church are running a lot of pages after hours or when no one is looking. I've been in the repair business for 28 years now and have seen this occur 2-3 times/year. People are running a side business using the employer's copier. It happens, and churches are not exempt from this. Have vendor enable accounting codes and move forward.
    I've proved mathematics wrong. 1 + 1 doesn't always equal 2.........


    Especially when it comes to sex

  10. #10
    Field Supervisor 500+ Posts
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    Re: Hidden Page Count - HELP - MPC3003 - Are we being scammed - We are a church

    I am also insulted that someone would think a tech would cheat a church. At least in our office, if a copier counter increases/decreases dramatically, the billing software flags it and we are sent out to get a meter reading to make sure customer did not transpose two numbers when reporting meters. That is probably all the tech was doing and you are putting blame on him. Shame on you take it up with his employer as mentioned.
    I've proved mathematics wrong. 1 + 1 doesn't always equal 2.........


    Especially when it comes to sex

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