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  1. #1
    Technician reglanet's Avatar
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    Real or altered counters

    I find it strange that high production equipment is sold with 400,000 / 500,000 copies.
    Ricoh C651 / 751, Ricoh C5100, Ricoh MP9002 etc. Can this be true? How can I know if the
    counters were reduced by some pirate? Is there any way to know?


  2. #2
    Technician JDYAL's Avatar
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    Re: Real or altered counters

    The MP 9002 has an mechanical counter inside the front door. You just have to peel off a little gray decal. Most bigger machines have a mechanical counter. All the Wide format B/W machines have an external mechanical counter.


  3. #3
    Trusted Tech 50+ Posts FrohnB's Avatar
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    Re: Real or altered counters

    I don't remember on these units, but I think they have a Mechanical counter hidden somewhere behind a cover inside the front door (I may be wrong). I have also posed this question to our service manager and other techs in the past thinking it odd that we've received some with 100k - 200k total on them (Pro C751 and C8002). Manager said "It could be a company that bought one and then went out of business in a short time". Who knows! I do believe that it's pretty hard to mess with the meters on a machine (unless it's an NVRAM change, which will zero out the counter that you see on display and then go up from that point on).


  4. #4
    Technician JDYAL's Avatar
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    Re: Real or altered counters

    I find 9002 from a reputable company that I've used before with less than 350,000 sometimes. I always check the mechanical counters and they have always matched.


  5. #5
    Senior member of CRS 2,500+ Posts
    Real or altered counters

    ZOOTECH's Avatar
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    Re: Real or altered counters

    A low meter on large production machines is, most likely, the salesman's "over sale".

    "You can't trust your eyes, if your mind is out of focus" --

  6. #6
    Service Manager 1,000+ Posts
    Real or altered counters


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    Re: Real or altered counters

    I agree most of the time the low meters are legit and over sold by a salesman as the other posted suggested. I would actually trust an electronic counter more than a mechanical, but having both on a machine is best. I have seen machines where the mechanical counters have been opened and rolled back. I've had some where the elec & mech numbers don't match. I just won't buy these machines. There are instances when NVRAM, etc are replaced and the reason meters don't match. And of course there are pirate dealers who turn back meters. They are thieves and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. These are the same dealers who swap consumables, bad boards, etc with machines going back to leasing companies. Then an independent like me buys one of these swapped out off lease machines thinking it has a nice low meter only to find out I got screwed!


  7. #7
    Senior Tech 250+ Posts
    Real or altered counters

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    Re: Real or altered counters

    One of our customers has had a Ricoh Pro 8100 which came back after 4 Years with a counter of 805.000. It's less than 20.000/month. He has a Ricoh Pro 8200 now, still less than 20.000/month.
    Another customer has a Ricoh SP 5200 Printer with 25.000/month!!!


  8. #8
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    Re: Real or altered counters

    You know for some people having something really fast is just the issue.


  9. #9
    Senior Tech 250+ Posts
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    Re: Real or altered counters

    Just to add, I would check the DF and Platen scans, plus inspect visually in detail covers off etc. It's not unknown for some devices to end up scanning far more than they do print nowadays. I have also seen customers need a loan machine as a issue with their original device was thought to be having major issues and might need to be swapped out then suddenly a solution is found.
    In some very wealthy companies where the print room has a standby machine (Which rarely gets used as they were lucky with downtime) or just as likely the print room fits three devices (for the sake of argument) and there are two operators, the two operators both have a favourite machine and only use the third when they have to as further from their desks.


  10. #10
    Senior Tech 1,000+ Posts
    Real or altered counters

    mikadonovan's Avatar
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    Re: Real or altered counters

    Quote Originally Posted by copyman View Post
    I agree most of the time the low meters are legit and over sold by a salesman as the other posted suggested. I would actually trust an electronic counter more than a mechanical, but having both on a machine is best. I have seen machines where the mechanical counters have been opened and rolled back. I've had some where the elec & mech numbers don't match. I just won't buy these machines. There are instances when NVRAM, etc are replaced and the reason meters don't match. And of course there are pirate dealers who turn back meters. They are thieves and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. These are the same dealers who swap consumables, bad boards, etc with machines going back to leasing companies. Then an independent like me buys one of these swapped out off lease machines thinking it has a nice low meter only to find out I got screwed!
    I ran into a preowned pro 907 a while back that had a low electronic meter, but found out the mechanical meter had over 2 mil on it. I purposefully looked for the mech meter because there were some inconsistencies in the SMC (found its location in the parts catalog).

    NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING

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