MPC 6500 7500 Blowing toner

**Wishbone** · 03-02-2010

These machines blow in more ways than one!

**stephend** · 03-03-2010

Originally Posted by jaredfmn

I am a service rep at a dealer in Minneapolis and we have several brand new machines that blow toner all over. Meaning the dev lip fills up and starts dumping inside the machine and all over the ITB, it also cause charge rollers to have lines extremely early. It mostly does it with Cyan, but Magenta and Yellow are just as bad. List of things we have tried below:
1) Entire PCU/DEV Assemblies
2) New Developer
3)New ITB Assembly
4) Nvram
5) Hard drives
6) Drum ground in Rear Drive of Machine

Note: There really is no rythme or reason these machines are doing this. Double Double checked Sp's. I would have to say out of the 35 machines we have maybe 5 are running as clean as the 3260 5560. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

We are fighting with the same same problem here in Calgary, Canada. We have tons of problems all over the city with identical symptoms.
New Jersey and Toronto tech support centers are no ready to recognize that it's a problem with these machine (a big one). After many hours of continuous analysis of SMC reports I can tell you that all the affected units have in common one thing:Humidity. In all the cases the humidity was less than 15%...so out of the operational range of the machine. Neither at 15% RH you won't see any improvements. Spoke with other techs in more humid locations and they are saying that it's not so bad...so humidity plays (I think) a huge role in our problems.
With this occasion I want to ask you guys to post together with your problem...the humidity recorded at the machine level and at the PCU level...at least to have a better idea of what is going on in different places
To check humidity level: SP 2302 (machine level) and SP 2901 (PCU level)

**stephend** · 03-03-2010

Originally Posted by Shadow1

I see this a lot because too much developer is being dumped from the overflow system. In theory, developer would only spill from the overflow once it reached a certain level in the unit as part of the trickle feed from the toner - in reality developer is constantly "splashing" up onto the overflow auger, and especially in low density/low toner usage conditions can easily wash too much out of the machine... which results in a light copy... which results in the machine adding much more toner... which it promptly pukes all over the inside of the machine since there is not enough developer to hold on to it.

The solution is to deactivate the overflow auger by removing the cam lever and 1 way bearing from the front of the developer unit. It appears vibration alone is enough to purge the excess developer, because I've modified several problem machines, and not a single one has given me a problem again, nor have they overfilled and bound up. I've only done this to machines I've had problems with (which is most all of them) so I don't know if it would be a good idea to recommend it as a field mod for all machines, but I've had other techs tell me they do it to all their machines with good results.

I presented exactly the same theory to one of our trainers and he told me that is "out of discussion"

) His opinion is that the ID sensors especially for Cyan and Magenta are faulty ?????
Recently I had one issue with a machine that performed well for a a full month after a full PM (with new units) was done...and exactly after 1 month the K unit start giving them light prints....all the color units were OK. I tested the toner supply system by adding toner (big mistake....) and for the moment the situation was fixed. The machine start working fine...for another day. The second day customer called again and told me that the K unit "exploded"...When I arrived I was able to see a massive toner spill from the K unit...blotches after blotches....so I think the TD sensor start acting weird....A brand new unit and a new bag of developer saved the day...if you can call it like this.
Lube bar cleaning blade it has nothing to do with this behavior...Personally I think this one is responsible for the lines on the charge rollers

so at every call for lines am cleaning them and vacuum all the excess lube/toner behind it

**salesux** · 03-05-2010

Glad to see I'm not the only one with this issue. That's what tech support in NJ told me. They recommended I change the toner supply units and transfer rollers??? Toner supply units maybe. Except when a machine has this issue its always with CMY not K. And Cyan is always the worst. So just the CMY toner supply units go bad? I have had this issue from the moment I first saw a unit in this series. I believe I've tried everything I can think of. I have 30 to 40 of these units and I can't see a pattern. I've collected SMC reports from most of them and there isn't a difference that I can see when they dump. And when they stop dumping they run fine for awhile. Anyway I'm glad to see I'm not the only one frustrated with these units.

**stephend** · 03-05-2010

Yes, Cyan is the worst one AND IS DUMPING starting with the first print/copy you made...I saw machines with 20K with PTR area full of cyan...it's all over...the vacuum transport and over the fuser, in the transfer belt unit...To replace the toner supply units will make sens if will be only one machine with this problem...but everybody is complaining about same thing....so all the toner supply units are defective???? Transfer rollers no success...I replaced them with the new part number and no improvement... The only improvement that make sens is to take out the cam that is moving the overflow auger...

Today I preflighted the first MPC 6501. I will be the first happy camper to service one of those....It look like they changed something...I'll try determine fast what and maybe we can find a way to improve the MPC 6000's or the Pro 550's.

**Shadow1** · 03-06-2010

Originally Posted by salesux

Anyway I'm glad to see I'm not the only one frustrated with these units.

Actually, I kinda wish I was the only on frustrated with these - that would mean I was doing something wrong, and a quick "please tell me I'm stupid" post on CopyTechNet would solve that real quick...

Originally Posted by stephend

.To replace the toner supply units will make sens if will be only one machine with this problem...but everybody is complaining about same thing....so all the toner supply units are defective???? ... <snip> ...The only improvement that make sens is to take out the cam that is moving the overflow auger...

There's no way toner pumps have anything to do with this unless the clutch is sticking, but they do fail (false out of toner is the usual symptom), and on a FYI side note the pumps are the source of fireflies these machines are so famous for. Check the bulletins for the C900 - Specifically G178/D016 - 033. When the toner runs dry the machine tries a little too hard to pump more out of the bottle/bag, running those type pumps dry creates a lot of friction, which melts the toner into those tiny little dots we usually see in the middle of the firefly. Corrective action on these beasts is essentially the same as for the C900, although I basically set my machines for "do not retry - ever." I've seen this exactly on failed pumps - melted plug of toner on the one I was brave enough to take apart.

Taking out the cam lever fixes the light copies -*IF*- you get the stupid thing to initialize properly at Dev setup. I think removing, or more likely stretching, the spring on the lube bar will help with the charge roller lines. Ricoh was right about that part - the lines are from built up lube. It would be a lot better if they would change the charge roller to something proven to work, and take that stupid fragile wussy foam cleaning roller off and replace it with something a little more substantial.

**msaeger** · 03-06-2010

It would have been better if they just used 4 corons. I never have a problem with the black.

And the MPC7501 still has the charge rollers.

**Shadow1** · 03-06-2010

Ricoh obviously recognizes coronas are better because the C900 uses them for all 4 colors. The problem is with all the extra ozone they generate - if you ever operate a C900 with the controller box pulled away its like dry cleaning your lungs, and you'll have to spend the rest of the day outside to get your tan back. Not that its a real problem, the ozone filters work fine if you change them on PM.
Charge rollers aren't that bad either you just have to keep them clean - just like you have to keep a corona clean - and the cleaning roller in these things falls apart if you look at it wrong, how can it possibly stand up to all the lube they're throwing at it.
Bottom line - There's a real lack of testing before they release a product these days. The engineers really need to get their ass in the field and work on some of the junk they design.

**stephend** · 03-06-2010

Originally Posted by Shadow1"Charge rollers aren't that bad either you just have to keep them clean - just like you have to keep a corona clean - and the cleaning roller in these things falls apart if you look at it wrong, how can it possibly stand up to all the lube they're throwing at it.

Bottom line - There's a real lack of testing before they release a product these days. The engineers really need to get their ass in the field and work on some of the junk they design ."[/QUOTE]

No problem to keep them clean from the technical point of view...but impossible to do it without pissing off you customers... Where I am during winter I'm lucky if I'll find an account with 10%RH at the PCU level....The majority of my account are at 5%...and cleaning the charge rollers just makes the situation more tense

. People bought these machines for R&D Dept for micro production of for production (depending how desperate was the sales person).

Agree with you about toner supply clutches...but it's impossible that all the units to have this problem since day 1....All C and M units start dumping since day 1 at least here where we are blessed with low RH for all 9 months of winter

Faded K at 15.000 and dumping units on brand new machines are the most common symptoms.

Looking at MPC 6501 and 7501...they did something...but in totally different areas than I expected. Improved fuser (great), improved materials in inverter (good) improved materials in duplex (OK), improved laser unit...ticker paper from tray 3 (I really didn't want to see this)...improved ADF (faster and better). NOTHING in the toner supply area, PCU units area. The thing that they don't mention but is modified is the developer...now different...So technologically was cheaper to develop a different powder hopping to fix (same with BW 4000/5000 models) all the problems....Time will see but I think it will be another looser...especially because this new model is advertised more aggressively as a production unit (new accessories like ring binder...scares the hell out of me...where this machines will end...