mpc toner pumps

[andy227]

Now I know this a much discussed issue about the failure rate of the toner pumps on all the mpc series, but my quiery is this. The place I work for deals in second hand/recon machines, mpc 2500's, 4500's 5000's etc. We get regular pump failures (typical symptons, "toner loading................" and staying that way for all eternity) and scavange other machines for parts. Increasingly I see toner pumps being replaced, and the replacement second hand pump doing the same, and after about two or three pumps we find that one might work. Now, they can't all be 'bad' pumps. My quiery is, has anyone else had this ? Is there something about second hand pumps that renders them useless once they've been removed and put in another machine ? Do they become useless by sitting idle and unused for months or long time ? Any input appreciated.

[zed255]

They do go bad and the only 'long term' solution is to install new ones. I ensure I replace the hoses too with the pump, the new pumps come with them. I wouldn't even waste my time and effort on a used pump. They also fail much faster when using non-OEM toners. The sleeve and rotor get sloppy and can't create enough vacuum to pull the toner down the hose from the hopper.

[ruben]

Second hand pumps are also more likely to be the original unmodified versions, more prone to failures.

You could always change to buying in the newer models, which use a hopper based system, instead of a pump one.

[andy227]

Thanks for responses guys.

I wouldn't even waste my time and effort on a used pump.

unfortunately thats the buisness of the company I work for, second hand machines. Still , why a working pump on a second hand machine won't work when removed and placed on another until you've tried a few. Also , the mention of the newer vs older pumps, any way of telling them apart visually ? How far back chronologically did this change begin ?

[slimslob]

I ensure I replace the hoses too with the pump, the new pumps come with them.

The hoses are coated on the inside to reduce the toner from sticking and causing a clog. When you replace the pump only and the hose is partially clogged, the pump is going to fail sooner.

The original parts catalog for the the MP C3000 used to list the hoses as a separate number. You could always see if you can still order them.

B223 3222 Tube: Toner Supply: Bk
B223 3223 Tube: Toner Supply: Y
B223 3224 Tube: Toner Supply: C
B223 3225 Tube: Toner Supply: M

[Counsel]

A lot of those pumps were pretty crappy, i had 1 machine once that each pump failed 1 day apart started with black, next day magenta wasnt working next day yellow and last was cyan so in 1 week i replaced all 4 of them. We always use new ones for something that fails that often theres no point in replacing it with another used crappy one unless its in close proximity to your shop/warehouse. If you think about it, if you have to drive an hour or more to get there and replace a part that isn't that costly and then do it again cause you used a crap part you probably spent more on fuel and labor then it you would have just buying the new part in the first place.

Our theory is if the part doesnt break that often or is something a user broke on accident then pulling a used part is usually ok, if its part that fails due to wear and tear theres no point in replacing it with a worn part from another machine unless the goal is to get it running that day while you order a new part. Things like toner pumps and the plastic gate pawls or fans and clutches stuff that breaks from wear we replace with new. Things like a tray latch or a plastic cover or tray guides/stops or the transport flaps that get broke by users pulling jams that sort of stuff we might throw in a used part as they don't really break that often.

Our area is vast we live in a rural state my territory alone is 800 square miles covering over 25 cities. So i don't throw in used parts on a call that takes 3 hours to get to, I replace anything that looks broke, doesnt work right or needs PM done as I don't want to drive back there 3 days later for something that costs less then a tank of fuel. In your case though If you keep using used ones i would stock my my can with like 5 or 6 pumps so you have backups.

I don't always replace the hose but i pull my vacuum on it to clear out clogs in the line I seldom have repeat offenders when i do this with a new pump install.

[anothertech]

the mention of the newer vs older pumps, any way of telling them apart visually ? How far back chronologically did this change begin ?

Looks like the new pump for the 5000 came out Jan, 2011 New Style Pump.pdf

[Oze]

unfortunately thats the buisness of the company I work for, second hand machines.

Might be time to "update" the company business model?
I've had hit and miss results robbing a machine to fit a pump to another....but I've ALWAYS had a win using the brand new part.
You DO realise that you can just order the black pump unit to fit all the colours yeah?
The only difference is the black pipe is longer than the coloured pipe.

[andy227]

Thanks anothertech, seen that bullitin before, new part number, old part number, but is there a way to tell a new pump from the old pumps. The part number is not on the actual pump and there must a way to visually distinguish the two if you have them in your hand. Anyone know ?

Oze, some of us are just employees doing our jobs as best as possible and maybe not our place to "update" the company business model. There are many things at play here, good paying customers, bad peanuts paying customers etc, those you earn from and those you don't, you know the politics, which we really do not want to delve into here.

[Hadster]

I'm with you on used parts and do it quite often but for this application it's a big waste of time. A toner pump is basically a clutch and when it starts slipping it can not pump. You would not put a used clutch in your car would you? I had a lot of add toner calls at one time and replaced with new pumps and now rarely have a call on this!