Gestetner 3265 tray 2 & 3 feed problem

[saidva]

I have a Gestetner 3265, and I can't print at all from trays 2 or 3. When I try it gives me a jam message in the A area (next to the waste toner bottle), but there isn't any paper in there when I open it up. Tray 1 and the LCT work just fine.

I don't think it's a roller problem, because I replaced the three blue rollers and cleaned all the rest of them -- and the paper isn't moving at all, not even slightly, out of the trays anyway. I thought it might be a failed sensor, but I'm not really sure how to proceed on this one.

This looks like it might be a specific problem that someone else has seen before. Any suggestions about what I should do next?

Thanks -- Doug.

[Jomama46]

Replace the feed clutches and the relay clutches while you're in there.

[Eric1968]

Agree with Jomama. Ricoh clutches aren't the best ones, so you'd better take a few with you.

[Shadow1]

Ricoh clutches can be a reliability problem - especially with a machine that likes to dump developer on them - but for the lower 2 trays to fail at the same time and tray 1 still feeds calls for further investigation.

Pull tray 1 and watch as tray2 tries to feed. Does the P/U roller drop and the rollers actually turn. You should also be able to hear the motor. A bad IO board or pinched harness could be to blame. A spring popped loose off the pickup roller can mess with your mind as well. (unlikely for 2 trays at once unless its technician induced somehow.)

I did that to myself once - had to pull the IOB to fix something else and didn't get one of the connectors all the way back in. Tray 1 worked, but 2 and 3 didn't. I didn't test all 3 trays when I left, and the customer rarely used them so I had to go back about 2 weeks later and beat my head against the wall (like my avatar) for a while.

Be prepared with the gears, but do the troubleshooting

[ddddyyyy]

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[saidva]

Thanks for the advice, Shadow1. We're not sure whether both trays failed at the same time -- tray 3 wasn't being used at all, and the first symptom was that tray 2 (which we use for 11 x 17) wasn't working. Later I tried tray 3, and it didn't work either.

I haven't had to work on this area in the machine before, so I've been looking it over and reading the service manual to figure out how it works. (The rest of the machines are all working, so I have some slack.) At 50 bucks a pop, I don't want to order the wrong clutches -- if it's the clutches at all.

So thanks, I'll follow your suggestions, and I'll let you all know how it comes out. -- Doug

[saidva]

I'm pretty sure I'm looking at a clutch problem. I pulled out tray 1 and ran a copy from tray 2. The pickup/feed rollers did lower onto the paper, and they're turning (or trying to), but they're not picking anything up.

So I removed tray 3 and pulled out the other two (to get at the rollers), and I found that I could turn the pickup/feed rollers by hand for trays 2 and 3 in either direction, but the rollers for tray 1 (which is working) in only one direction.

Looks like two failed clutches. Sound like a reasonable conclusion?

[Scott_Lewis]

So I removed tray 3 and pulled out the other two (to get at the rollers), and I found that I could turn the pickup/feed rollers by hand for trays 2 and 3 in either direction, but the rollers for tray 1 (which is working) in only one direction.

Looks like two failed clutches. Sound like a reasonable conclusion?

Hmm, that sounds more like one-way bearings. I'm pretty sure there is at least one at the feed roller. Don't remember if there are any at the drive/clutch side of the machine.

(Most of my Ricohs are relatively new machines. Haven't done clutches on anything smaller than 60cpm in a couple of years.)

[Shadow1]

Looks like two failed clutches. Sound like a reasonable conclusion?

No, but at the same time, yes.

I had several of these in a print shop (as a Lanier 5265)

My only question is if the rollers are turning while the Pickup is in contact with the paper stack. You can stick your finger on one while it tries to feed (if you can bend that way and hit start) If the clutches are good it WILL turn, so try not to get caught in anything. Also, PFU's 1 and 3 are the same, so you can swap and verify if its mechanical in the PFU or in the wiring harness / IOB. (In the next generation the clutches were replaced with more one way bearings and individual motors in each feed unit and all 3 PFU's became identical.)

The drive for the lower 2 trays is from the same motor, but a different belt, so that would be my first check. Have to pull the power supply, but this gives you a chance to look for annother common problem: spilled developer.

As I said, the clutches are still actual clutches in this machine, but there is a one way bearing on the feed roller shaft designed specifically to prevent the feed roller from spinning backwards, which obviously is bad. This one will have no effect on the jams you are having, but these machines like to dump developer down into the feed, so if there is a bad bearing, chances are this is what happened and they are all shot and the gears are ground down to nothing.

Be prepared to replace the developer mixer bushings (I usually swap the whole unit - its a mess to fix and I never had good luck with a rebuilt one) and every single gear, bearing, and clutch in the rear of all 3 PFU's and in the drive frame. It sux, I know, but you might as well get it all at once because it sux worse to chase that gremlin all over and have to start back at the beginning again. Also plan to spend at least an hour with the vacuum poking it into crevases you never knew existed. Most techs having done this once fit a piece of mylar over the PFU's to keep it happening again.

Good luck.