What's your recommendations for a bulletproof / idiot-proof copier for teachers ?

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  • Hart
    Trusted Tech

    100+ Posts
    • Feb 2024
    • 205

    What's your recommendations for a bulletproof / idiot-proof copier for teachers ?

    I had another argument with a high school principal about the fact that "no, our copiers aren't trash", but that when you have between 50 and 100 adults with a crap mentality worse than the children they're supposed to be educating, who don't give a damn about the equipment because they're untouchable (I don't know about your country, but here the state has to provide them with the equipment even if they destroy it...), I could intervene every day and it wouldn't change the problem.
    So, she challenged me to find her a machine that could be (almost) unbreakable by teachers and that didn't require an operator, "unlimited" money.
    I need a B&W model and a color.
    Usually for the B&W we install Sharp Taurus (MX-M754 / MX-M7570 / BP-70M90) which are good machines, but not good enough in 2024 for these assholes. For color, an office model like MX-6071 / BP-70C65 was enough for their few color prints, but since then they've been blowing up the counters (well, we're not going to put codes and quotas on them, as that might upset them...).
    For the moment I'm going for an Epson WF-M21000 and WF-C21000 (I was impressed by their design during the training) but I'm open to any proposal.
  • blackcat4866
    Master Of The Obvious

    Site Contributor
    10,000+ Posts
    • Jul 2007
    • 22670

    #2
    Re: What's your recommendations for a bulletproof / idiot-proof copier for teachers ?

    Lol!! The world will always build better idiots.

    I remember installing machines in the 1990's. The customer asked us to remove all the function buttons except the green start button. The endusers still managed to break the one remaining button. And to service the machines we had to bring along a spare operation panel to enter service mode. =^..^=
    If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
    1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
    2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
    3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
    4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
    5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

    blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

    Comment

    • slimslob
      Retired

      Site Contributor
      25,000+ Posts
      • May 2013
      • 34960

      #3
      Re: What's your recommendations for a bulletproof / idiot-proof copier for teachers ?

      Personally I never had much trouble with the schools I serviced. Of course my boss personally knowing the superintendents of them did help. Also having campus IT personnel that all repair requests had to go through helped. They took care of checking to see if it was an operator problem and instructing the teachers as to what they were and were not allowed to do. In addition The State of California education budget doesn't provide funds for teachers to get paper so if they want to make copies or prints they have to provide their own paper or let the office personnel take care of it. One elementary district had their own print shop. Initially with a Ricoh Pro 1257EX B/W and a MP 7502. Almost every printed piece of paper used in the classroom was printed in the print shop. It was all mandated by the state. In fact everything could be purchased from the state but they found that they could do it themselves for about half the cost including hiring an experienced print shop operator.

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      • mloudy
        Senior Tech

        500+ Posts
        • Oct 2015
        • 740

        #4
        Re: What's your recommendations for a bulletproof / idiot-proof copier for teachers ?

        I have heard from so many techs that the Sharp Hercules series is about as good as they get. I do know there are dealers with them in schools with 17M plus pages, maybe more. I've been told they just run. Never worked on one myself as our schools run the MX-M754N through BP-70M75.

        Comment

        • kingarthur
          Service Manager

          1,000+ Posts
          • Feb 2008
          • 1189

          #5
          Re: What's your recommendations for a bulletproof / idiot-proof copier for teachers ?

          Originally posted by Hart
          I had another argument with a high school principal about the fact that "no, our copiers aren't trash", but that when you have between 50 and 100 adults with a crap mentality worse than the children they're supposed to be educating, who don't give a damn about the equipment because they're untouchable (I don't know about your country, but here the state has to provide them with the equipment even if they destroy it...), I could intervene every day and it wouldn't change the problem.
          So, she challenged me to find her a machine that could be (almost) unbreakable by teachers and that didn't require an operator, "unlimited" money.
          I need a B&W model and a color.
          Usually for the B&W we install Sharp Taurus (MX-M754 / MX-M7570 / BP-70M90) which are good machines, but not good enough in 2024 for these assholes. For color, an office model like MX-6071 / BP-70C65 was enough for their few color prints, but since then they've been blowing up the counters (well, we're not going to put codes and quotas on them, as that might upset them...).
          For the moment I'm going for an Epson WF-M21000 and WF-C21000 (I was impressed by their design during the training) but I'm open to any proposal.

          What is it they say "You can't fix stupid"
          Tip for the day; Treat every problem as your dog would.....If you cant eat it or f*ck it....then p*ss on it & walk away...

          Comment

          • Hart
            Trusted Tech

            100+ Posts
            • Feb 2024
            • 205

            #6
            Re: What's your recommendations for a bulletproof / idiot-proof copier for teachers ?

            @mloudy
            All the people who work for Sharp get an erection when they tell me about the Hercules, but they've all forbidden me to put one in a teacher's room because they'll sully it with their crass incompetence, so for the moment we stick with the Taurus.

            @slimslob
            We don't have any problems with elementary school, they know they're on a tight budget and respect the equipment, I have several machines that are close to a million without any intervention other than maintenance.
            Colleges have the budget, reprographic services, and they set up codes with Papercut or equivalent, in addition to having users who are cerebral adults.
            The problem lies in the in-between.

            Comment

            • ihatefinishers13
              Senior MFP Technician

              250+ Posts
              • Feb 2020
              • 398

              #7
              Re: What's your recommendations for a bulletproof / idiot-proof copier for teachers ?

              We ended up putting the C/M21000's in a school district near us, and other than the high cap unit feed tire counter of 100k, they're solid. They don't jam naturally like Kyocera's, however, bad paper will cause TONS. OF. PAPER DUST. The other potential issue could be the ink yield, but we've had a hard time confirming that speculation.

              One thing they should have done was put the "paper width detection sensor" facing down, instead of up, as it gets covered in the paper dust and caused weird errors.

              If your tech's are okay working with them, it works, but the finisher designs are garbage.

              Herc series machines are great, we've only had a few in the field, but they're one of the easiest machines to service, maintenance parts last past the recommended replacement interval, and those numbers are HIGH (500k and 1mil for most everything besides feed tires)

              Comment

              • Hart
                Trusted Tech

                100+ Posts
                • Feb 2024
                • 205

                #8
                Re: What's your recommendations for a bulletproof / idiot-proof copier for teachers ?

                I threatened the sales staff not to sell finishers in this range, the machines were clearly not designed with finishers in mind. Behold ! The madness :
                4887814_4892195.jpg

                "One thing they should have done was put the "paper width detection sensor" facing down, instead of up, as it gets covered in the paper dust and caused weird errors."
                If I remember correctly during my training I was told that this sensor had been improved.

                Comment

                • ihatefinishers13
                  Senior MFP Technician

                  250+ Posts
                  • Feb 2020
                  • 398

                  #9
                  Re: What's your recommendations for a bulletproof / idiot-proof copier for teachers ?

                  Originally posted by Hart
                  I threatened the sales staff not to sell finishers in this range, the machines were clearly not designed with finishers in mind. Behold ! The madness :
                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]62242[/ATTACH]

                  "One thing they should have done was put the "paper width detection sensor" facing down, instead of up, as it gets covered in the paper dust and caused weird errors."
                  If I remember correctly during my training I was told that this sensor had been improved.
                  That's a nice diagram... It only tells a quarter of the paper path story... It's missing 3 twists, 2 figure 8's, and a loop-de-loop.

                  Comment

                  • Hart
                    Trusted Tech

                    100+ Posts
                    • Feb 2024
                    • 205

                    #10
                    Re: What's your recommendations for a bulletproof / idiot-proof copier for teachers ?

                    I can cheat, MP tray to face up tray :
                    4887814_4888271.jpg

                    The AM-C is boring in comparison :
                    50899912_88605268.jpg

                    Comment

                    • slimslob
                      Retired

                      Site Contributor
                      25,000+ Posts
                      • May 2013
                      • 34960

                      #11
                      Re: What's your recommendations for a bulletproof / idiot-proof copier for teachers ?

                      Originally posted by Hart
                      I can cheat, MP tray to face up tray :
                      [ATTACH=CONFIG]62246[/ATTACH]
                      Excellent for running heavy card stock or slick surface photo glossy paper to reduce jamming.


                      The AM-C is boring in comparison :
                      [ATTACH=CONFIG]62247[/ATTACH]

                      Comment

                      • Renlie
                        Junior Member
                        • Jan 2021
                        • 9

                        #12
                        Re: What's your recommendations for a bulletproof / idiot-proof copier for teachers ?

                        Originally posted by ihatefinishers13
                        We ended up putting the C/M21000's in a school district near us, and other than the high cap unit feed tire counter of 100k, they're solid. They don't jam naturally like Kyocera's, however, bad paper will cause TONS. OF. PAPER DUST. The other potential issue could be the ink yield, but we've had a hard time confirming that speculation.

                        One thing they should have done was put the "paper width detection sensor" facing down, instead of up, as it gets covered in the paper dust and caused weird errors.

                        If your tech's are okay working with them, it works, but the finisher designs are garbage.

                        Herc series machines are great, we've only had a few in the field, but they're one of the easiest machines to service, maintenance parts last past the recommended replacement interval, and those numbers are HIGH (500k and 1mil for most everything besides feed tires)

                        Hello,

                        We print with C21000 and C17590, C20600...

                        And yes, bad paper causes tons of paper dust accumulated inside the machine.
                        But reliability, speed and quality is good for school or office documents.

                        Comment

                        • copyman
                          Owner / Technician

                          Site Contributor
                          2,500+ Posts
                          • Sep 2005
                          • 4149

                          #13
                          Re: What's your recommendations for a bulletproof / idiot-proof copier for teachers ?

                          That's a tough question with what machine will work in a school! I work on Kon Min but still don't have enough confidence to recommend the "i" series. But have heard the Kon Min B&W production models are good.

                          Problem is most machines have complicated operation panels that teachers struggle with. Lol, The more educated the teacher, the more complicated the op panel is for them! Actually most would probably struggle with adding paper

                          I've been in this business 40+ yrs and shools/teachers have always been the worse account for servicing printers & copiers. 2nd worse are car salesmen! I'm sure money is made on the other side with sales/lease, supplies, etc but money is lost on the service side "most" of the time.

                          Not sure if anyone has mentioned this but back in the day we had to put pad locks on the front covers so teachers couldn't open and destroy machines. I remember the company I worked for when the owner told us to pad lock all machines in the schools. What pushed him over the edge was a teacher poured liquid ink into toner hopper

                          Comment

                          • slimslob
                            Retired

                            Site Contributor
                            25,000+ Posts
                            • May 2013
                            • 34960

                            #14
                            Re: What's your recommendations for a bulletproof / idiot-proof copier for teachers ?

                            Originally posted by copyman
                            That's a tough question with what machine will work in a school! I work on Kon Min but still don't have enough confidence to recommend the "i" series. But have heard the Kon Min B&W production models are good.

                            Problem is most machines have complicated operation panels that teachers struggle with. Lol, The more educated the teacher, the more complicated the op panel is for them! Actually most would probably struggle with adding paper

                            I've been in this business 40+ yrs and shools/teachers have always been the worse account for servicing printers & copiers. 2nd worse are car salesmen! I'm sure money is made on the other side with sales/lease, supplies, etc but money is lost on the service side "most" of the time.

                            Not sure if anyone has mentioned this but back in the day we had to put pad locks on the front covers so teachers couldn't open and destroy machines. I remember the company I worked for when the owner told us to pad lock all machines in the schools. What pushed him over the edge was a teacher poured liquid ink into toner hopper
                            Apparently you have never had to work on any equipment at a prison and deal with muscle headed correction officers, especially those that have to morning watch (midnight to 8AM).

                            For a number of years we had the contract for the Tehachapi State Prison. A little over 2 dozen machines total. The ones in administrative offices weren't bad since they were only used weekdays during day watch and they were well looked after. Yard offices were another story entirely. In use 24/7 mostly by goons. Yard sergeants with day watch even complained about the condition the machines would be in when they went to work. Machines that were working the afternoon were not only not working but often damaged.

                            Comment

                            • copyman
                              Owner / Technician

                              Site Contributor
                              2,500+ Posts
                              • Sep 2005
                              • 4149

                              #15
                              Re: What's your recommendations for a bulletproof / idiot-proof copier for teachers ?

                              Originally posted by slimslob
                              Apparently you have never had to work on any equipment at a prison and deal with muscle headed correction officers, especially those that have to morning watch (midnight to 8AM).

                              For a number of years we had the contract for the Tehachapi State Prison. A little over 2 dozen machines total. The ones in administrative offices weren't bad since they were only used weekdays during day watch and they were well looked after. Yard offices were another story entirely. In use 24/7 mostly by goons. Yard sergeants with day watch even complained about the condition the machines would be in when they went to work. Machines that were working the afternoon were not only not working but often damaged.
                              No, never had any prison accounts. But I've had plenty of other accounts with stupid end users. Teachers & car salesmen are still top of my list.

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