Hi guys , i was just wondering about the proper life span of a copier , reason for this is because we get alot of techs asking questions about copiers that i have forgotten about and today i had a machine that was installed by our company in 1998 the machine was still in good nick but i told the customer it is unrepairable because i know if we had to repair it the dude will keep bringing it back so i reffered him to sales.Personally i think it should be no longer than 3 years and used machines should be scrapped and thrown away (recycled in other words).
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What did the salesman tell the customer the life was? I worked on a 10 year old analog because the salesman told him it would last 15 years, and he expects to get it. These service agreements that get renewed every year keep you working on junk. It would be great to only have newer machines in the field, but life aint gonna work that way!The greatest enemy of knowledge isn't ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. Stephen Hawking -
I rely on the availablity of parts. Depending on the model, that could be anywhere from 7 to 15 years. The main factor is whether that model was popular. I still see, and work on HP LJ8100, HP LJ5si, HP LJ4000. Just as long as I can get the parts. But I never promise, or even hint at how long that time period might be. It really comes down to whether there is a market for the parts suppliers to cater to. =^..^=If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.
blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=Comment
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Don't forget the old trusty LJ4, I love those things.The greatest enemy of knowledge isn't ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. Stephen HawkingComment
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We have a few machines that we service on a regular basis that are 10 - 15 years old and are working great for the customer. When I get asked this question I normally answer that it is like a car (since some of them cost that much LOL). Lease agreements are normally for 5 years so the machine should have a life expectancy of, at least, that long. But I also tell the customers it depends on the availibility of parts, for Sharp it seems they keep stock on their machines for 10 years. We have local competitors that sell people a machine and then in 3 years tell them they can't get parts, that's a poor business practice if you ask me. It either means the company sells junk or doesn't care about the product they sell.
BilComment
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The actual lifetime is determined by the manufacturer in its design criteria and should be available from each. From that determination, I believe it is plus one year for spare parts availability, after that time it is what ever the manufacturer has left in stock. It is all calculated in the beginning as to expected units sold and spare parts mortality and etc, etc. Heck, one time Xerox wanted to sell me all there Xerox 2510 spare parts inventory and they had thousands of parts left 20 years after the introduction of the copier. My experience shows most manufacturers are pretty well stocked up to about 7 years after discontinue date. Your mileage may vary. If you want a specific timeline, ask your manufacturer for the "Lifetime of the product" as they determined in their design criteria.
In the US auto industry I know they follow a 10 years after model year, spare parts will be provided. Is it a law, a statutory requirement, I don't know and I don't know if there is a specific law for spare parts in the copier printer industry. There is also "Voluntary" and "Statutory" as key words in any requirement.
If anybody is a member of BTA, they can ask for a legal opinion. Please keep us informed if you do.
Also, Rudi, since I see you used the term " good nick" I figure you are outside the US and may very well follow a different set of standards.Comment
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The machine will last as long as you can get parts. I wouldn't tell the customer this as it will counter act new sales, but in reality it's the truth. Light use machines (read oversold) will last longer than heavy used machines (read undersold). Environment also has an effect on the longevity. If you're looking for a rule of thumb go with 5 years.the savin2535 is displaying well bet the hiter lamp is not shining and the lamp had been tested o.k.please kindly help.Samir: No, not again. I... why does it say paper jam when there is no paper jam? I swear to God, one of these days, I just kick this piece of shit out the window.
Michael Bolton: You and me both, man. That thing is lucky I'm not armed.Comment
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We "hope" to have customers get new machines every 5 years. Many of their machines barely last that long with 35cpm machines going over 1.4million. I prefer 30-45 cpm machines to be retired before 1mil. 15-28cpm 500K is a good mark. Anyone machine 51cpm or higher "should" last in the millions easy with proper maintenance. But Analog and First Gen Digital. Are really getting hard to get parts for. We've done our best to get most of those out of the field.
10 years is insane, but sadly we have a few that are pushing 15.Comment
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I try to stay away from "years" and go with copy count and of course, parts availability. the customer seems to understand that number better and are more open to replacing a machine when it needs it vs the old, "oh...isn't this supposed to last X number of years?".
if it's a school or government contract for a certain time frame, we end up being creative in keeping some machines still running!Comment
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Yeah lots of instances we bring loaner machines, But we don't tell customer their machine is too old and don't use a set date. Its basically till parts run out. I wish we would discontinue support when Parts Support is done that way we don't have customers mad when they are paying for maintenance and we can't get parts for their machine.Comment
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Statutes in the U.S.
In the U.S., the statute is that the manufacturer must provide replacement parts for 7 years after the product has been discontinued. Typically a new piece of gear is discontinued 3 years after it has been introduced. In some cases, manufacturers have continued producing parts. For example, Sharp introduced the 2022 series in the early 90's. Until recently, we were still able to get some parts, but that series was an exceptional run. The same is true for many HP printers. For the most part, I would say 10 years is the rule of thumb, just as we might say 70 years is how long a person can live. Time, environment, use, and the number of users all tend to reduce lifespan on a copier.
What we really want customers to know though is that the technology is moving at the speed of computer technology. That means that every 6 months to a year, the technology makes a significant leap in reducing cost, improving productivity, or simplifying connectivity. That means that if they are waiting ten years, they may be significantly behind the competition.Comment
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Rule of thumb in these parts is 5-6 years.Comment
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I agree! Customers need to realize that MFPs are computers, too.
Not only are parts an issue, as they always have been, but the software side must be considered as well.
The machines need to keep up with changing operating systems, email protocols, security constraints, and applications. As MFPs integrate deeper and deeper into the network, it's not just print drivers to contend with.
For instance, do you really think that a machine that came out in 2006 will play nicely with Windows 9, or Mac OSXI when they become reality? The manufacturers only go back so far when writing new software and firmware. It's crazy to think that they will continue to develop updates for antiquated machines.“I think you should treat good friends like a fine wine. That’s why I keep mine locked up in the basement.” - Tim HawkinsComment
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Very true.
That being so, it's up to both service and sales to convince the customer that the MFP won't just "automagically" adapt to any changes that come along.
I suppose that if the customer will never upgrade his OS or any applications, an MFP would last for quite a long time... but I know of no one who could ever commit to that. (BTW... applications tend to cost much more than the hardware when you add them up.) Even if the customer were to never change his applications, the next PC he buys will come with Windows 7. I'm sure the same thing will hold true for future versions of Windows as well. Ditto for the Mac side of the world too.
I've seen tons of cases where the customer went out and spent a ton of money on the latest and greatest hardware and software, then it was our fault because our equipment either wouldn't work correctly without a chargeable upgrade, isn't fully functional, or just plain wouldn't work at all.
We become the bad guys for selling junk. That gets even further compliacted when the customer says. "Our salesman told us that ALL future updates for this model are included in our contract!". Grrrrrr
Sometimes you can tactfully try to explain the difference between an "update" and and "upgrade", but that doesn't always fly. (Updates are normally provided at no cost, while upgrades are normally chargeable.)
Believe it or not, a few weeks ago, I actually had a customer asked us BEFORE he upgraded! I was both shocked and impressed. He has a Fiery E-8100 and asked us if it was OK to upgrade his Macs to OSX 10.6. Turns out that we'll need to update the Fiery to version 1.11, but no worries.
“I think you should treat good friends like a fine wine. That’s why I keep mine locked up in the basement.” - Tim HawkinsComment
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