imagepress c1 need tons of help

[Penvy]

Thanks so much so far help here,
We have had just plain poor service from the local canon dealer
we even stopped the service ,they could not make the colors work
and over all poor performance of C1 30% waste.
complaints were just not fixed.


We just keep having more problems.
I read the service manual top to bottom
and serviced copiers.
Mach is 1 year old
not humid.
use canon parts
use good paper even some canon

50k on new drum replaced already by canon
canon did not clean or replace anything else in mach
on service ticket

we keep it very clean inside and out
prim grid and wires good
feed path and rolls kept clean

software installed by canon in april 08
mac system


Cleaning web jam........bad!

dont know how? but it did.
It damaged the fuser roll on the roll ends with little fold marks on each side.
fixed the web and will replace the fuser roll very soon
At least that is easy.

Color voiding on print.
looks as if the color toner starting with the Y
was having clumping in the developer section.
remover the Y developer unit and cleaned the blades got it the mostly stop it.
but on the service mode DENS-TEST #5 full halftone on the Y only.
would get voiding patches in the center
the developer mag roll rotated looked very smooth on the toner
distribution.
you could up the DENS on the Y TEST to 200 and still see the patch voiding.

Did the full gradation many times
the other colors were good M and C and K with the 16 step
the Y was a little messy but would print.

THEN the M was voiding with the same thing
then the C

Svc mode 1 PG- test-dens-5- Y still voiding patch
C had white streak changing in feed direction
And M doing the same thing. with the TEST DENS.

you could still up the Y C M K on each color test but
the developer in each was getting erratic specks and voiding
the full color print.

then getting the patch image error
ATR error.
Cleaned the ATR sensor and flag
cleaned the patch image sensor and slide
on drum assy.

copy black only on scanner and use black only on color choice.
on copy and good results

photo drum seems good

ALso been getting a color banding very light on full color when using coated paper with M C cant see Y.

MY question is on the developer for each color.
they look very smooth when mag drum is spinned in the right direction.

This is a tough on guys but were into it big time.
were trying to get canon to take a part of this as they should have.
but not even a call back.

so can you guys help ?
thanks a lot

[Oze]

WOW..
And I thought WE had a lot of C1 issues.
We have 2 techs at work(myself included)that are Canon trained on the IP-C1.
Luckily we only have 3xC1 in the field....coz anymore and I'd be insane..!!!
The machine was supposed to be sold as a low volume,proofing machine only...but(at least in my area) was sold to printers as a high volume,quality print solution...a replacement to lithographic presses.
Due to the Holiday season I'm not at work and don't have my hands on the Canon techbase to look up your issues...HOWEVER....
Have you done all the mods that are current?
Have you tried running a print engine only autogradation?
When you inspected the dev units....even though you say that have good starter/toner coverage...are the brushes standing up?
(A "brush" is what we call the height of the toner covering the mag roller).

you could still up the Y C M K on each color test but
the developer in each was getting erratic specks and voiding
the full color print.

then getting the patch image error
ATR error.
Cleaned the ATR sensor and flag
cleaned the patch image sensor and slide
on drum assy.

To be getting density issues follwed by a density read error....it really sounds like the SGNL levels stored on the DC have been corrupted and you might either need to clear or replace the DC controller.
I'd be trying a DC clear first...as we've had some success in that area.

ALso been getting a color banding very light on full color when using coated paper with M C cant see Y.

There are mods that help with that issue and I'll post them up when I'm back at work.
As for the drums....we go through a lot of drums among the 3 machines that we have...they've all had drums replaced before time...usually due to the coloured dot issue(a tiny dot on the drum that,although naked to the eye on the drum surface,repeats in all 4 colours down the page).
PM your email and I'll send you whatever I can.

[Penvy]

Yes the brush stands up, BUT this mach is 1 year old.
the dev units should go for 500k

New info

The patch image sensor ooo20--xxa1
0000020 xx86
ATR sig over 960
get those when print color teats

I did print out the entire settings and did a compare with the install
printout. AND

I did the function test on the ATR flag and patch slide cover.

When you install the drum the image patch cover is spring loaded

It all started with the Y color void patches.

at first the C and M on the test dens #5 were good. along with the K.

now the K is very light
the C and M are bad with major banding voids.
in the test dens.
and get error

But we know the drum is ok
the K when scan or copy is right on.

The test grid is bad with the color void. but the alignment of the grid pattern is good.

It seems as if the patch image just went bad right away.
the settings are good on the label match the 3 in the settings.

we did clean up the dev assy to get the clumping out

it was just enough to cause the dens test streaking on the C and M


the toner dev just are not getting on the drum even

but the solid black cover we put on the scanner was perfect

solid black.
any color was just really messed up and patch error.

those C Y M And K should last much longer.

its like the color just does not make it around the drum enough the get to the image patch.

even did the function install for 4 stirring and toner dist. and got the error xx 86


the dens settings read then were 1230 on each instead of the Y 488 M 489 C 465.
so I set them back.

The copier- display- dens reading are as follows

Dens-Y+19.80%
Dens-M +21.00%
Dens-C +21.00%
Dens s-y 275
dens-s-m 271
dens-s-c 325
dens-s-k 282
d-y trgt 282
d-m trgt 323
d-c trgt 343
ref- y-0 .... should be 518
ref-m-0......should be 518
ref -c-0....should be 518
sgnl-y-0...should be 516
sgnl-m-0....should be 500+
sgnl-c-0...should be 500+
p-sens-p 0

the zeros show somethings not seeing the color?
the service manual is not very good at telling you what #'s
should be close and what it the prob is when their not there

It all goes back to the patch image sensor or something going on with each dev color assembly.

the toner is canon and has been kept in good storage.
the C1 is used every day but not with very big runs.

The full gradation wont finish for the error code.

Are the image patch sensors THAT easy to go bad.

Now the ITB is clean and worked well before this all happened.

Keep in mind the thing is a year old and the total count is under 65K
even when canon replaced the drum early on for the hickey on the image.
Could the ITB be causing the very light M and C banding across the whole page?

well the main thing is fixing the main problems first.
thanks again for the help so far.

[Oze]

Are the image patch sensors THAT easy to go bad.

We've replaced the patch read sensors in 2 out of 3 machines.
That's the sensor that sits on the AP kit.
The shutter CAN cause issues...it's operated by a solenoid and we've replaced both the sensor and the solenoid before to rid E020 and E025 errors.
Unless the transfer rollers inside the itb assembly have flat spotted I don't think the belt would have an issue although that will cause voids in colors only...black would be ok.

[Penvy]

The patch sensor could go bad that fast?
no flat rolls on the itb.
the shutter cks out ok with the function parts mode

even cked the multi cable that conn to the patch sensor and the conn on the right side wall conn after so many time I pulled them out.

I hope some of you could read the numbers on the read out on the last post
to see if that is where to look.

many thanks again for the input .
I am trying to give as much detail as I can.
I have spent days on this

must be missing something here of just too many probs at once.
but will keep at this with all of your help here!

[Oze]

Product : imagePRESS C1 Title : imagePRESS C1 White Lines Counter Measure Error :
White lines appear at various spots on copies. The lines run from lead edge to trail edge. When you inspect the developer mag rollers, toner is matted on the cylinder.The marks clean off easily, but return when start running copies.

Workaround :
Ensure that service modes are set to the door specs.

Check your densities. You will find that the developers are over toned. Begin running 11 x 17 PG 5's of the color that is exhibiting the problem. If it is severely over toned, you may experience E020 sub code 0xA8. Clear the code and continue until Display DENS is normal. Repeat for each color that is experiencing the problem. When done run AutoGradation and Calibration.

[Oze]

Product : imagePRESS C1 Title : Intermittent background banding any or all colors. Problem :
Intermittent background banding any or all colors.

Solution :
Replace connector J70-F, figure 103, item 10, FM2-7291-000.

[Oze]

Product : imagePRESS C1 Title : White Line on All Four Colors Error :
A white line running from lead edge to trail edge on all four colors is manifested on all prints and copies. Toner is built up on the mag rollers of all four colors in the same place. You can clean the marks off, but as you rotate the rotary manually, the marks return.

Workaround :
Check the shutter to the salt sensor and the patch reading sensor.

[Oze]

Not sure if you had access to this info so I thought I'd better post it up for you.
And one other thing that occurred to me...check the bias connections for the 2nd transfer assembly...there are connectors at the front and rear of the unit that can get covered in toner if people don't empty the waste toner box inside the unit.

[Penvy]

again thanks so much

the bias conn are clean, first thing .
the mach is not had that much use but cleaned anyway.
each color is a real prob getting the 000020 xx1a or xx86
trying to do anything.

all the sensor flags ,shutters working.
all the door settings and printouts of all settings done

the display readings that I posted were the ones that look as if whats going on.
again the service manual on this is a C1 dated 06' and is the right one.
but not help much in the troubleshooting.

not overtoned on the dev colors.
it seems as if the color is just not getting on the drun even.
starts out not to good across the lead edge then just starts voiding and banding into just no color.

thought the HV prim and grid was going bad but the B&W sky shot and scan were good.

it seems as if the color dev are all going bad.

lets say that in svc mode the dens test 5 for each color just stopped before the image patch sensor could even read the color on the drum.

like no color at all.
that would seem to give that kind of error code 00000020 xx1a or xx86

sorry for all this mess but the local dealer at this point is no halp and its the holidays with no local tech's around

[Oze]

First thing I'd suggest is to clear the DC/MMI clear and then re-enter the door settings and factory PASCAL settings.
It sounds like either a DC issue or the HVT gone bad.
If you clear the DC and the issue resolves for a short time and then reappears...replace the DC pcb.
The reason to suspect the DC is the fact that the reference values have gone back to 0...and that's why the SGNL levels are reading 0.
Looks like the information that was stored on the DC for the machine to compare against is gone.
The SGNL readings can be anything....as this is just reading the density of the dev at the time...but the reference values MUST be present for this to happen and they just aren't there.

[Penvy]

well that makes sense on the ref and the clear..the HVT I will have to look into.
but with the door open and the door switch bypass
you can see the Prim grid wire glow when in a print cycle

again the solid black on the copier print would show the wire to be ok

How about changing the dev and toner , just clean it out and replace the dev and new toner.
the dev unit is just to new to replace the entire unit/units

Is there just the dev powder and remix the toner like you would when replacing the unit?

[Oze]

well that makes sense on the ref and the clear..the HVT I will have to look into.
but with the door open and the door switch bypass
you can see the Prim grid wire glow when in a print cycle

again the solid black on the copier print would show the wire to be ok

How about changing the dev and toner , just clean it out and replace the dev and new toner.
the dev unit is just to new to replace the entire unit/units

Is there just the dev powder and remix the toner like you would when replacing the unit?

Hmmm...I know that C1 devs can't be restarted...they're meant to be a straight swap.
I'll check at work tomorrow to see if we even have C1 starter.
It might be a case like irc3100 devs where you order each dev as a different part number.
iRC6800 devs come with the one part number and you add the YMC starter.

[Penvy]

Boy I remember that,
all you had to do was vac out all the old toner /dev , clean it ck the blades
and your up!.

Any way the devs are way to new to even do that 75K

there listed replace at 500K.
Funny thing on the service mode 1-display -dens and the readings
DENS-Y 19.80%
DENS-M 21.00%
DENS-C 21.00%
REF-Y 0
REF-M 0
REF-C 0
SGNL-Y 0
SGNY-M 0
SGNY-C 0
PCH-LED 142
PCH-LED 135
PCH-LED 127

Again the patch image sensor error thing
seems as if the image on the drum is just not getting on the drum.
except the K black copy or scan with text or a solid black page on the scan bed.
it looks great.

But the color is just so bad.

The main problem was the color voids or streaks starting with the Y.
I cleaned up the dev unit and it worked fine on just the Y
then the C and M started to do it. They wer getting little clumps that would ride along with the toner and void that area.


The toner is all oem canon as with all service parts kept in cool/dry conditions.

all the gradation and adj would not fix that.

As far as the door settings and the print readout that the install tech did after the install.
I have all of that.
What I did was compare the org readout printout with the last one I just printed out from the same C1 iam having problems with.
But the TEST-DENS on the Y-C-M K show the colors having a real prob with the C-M.

I did cleanout of the Y and toner refresh and it worked fine.

sure replacing the color units would be a start but too soon with the total count.

Funny thing is that when we call other dealers in our area that service canon....they almost all say that they cant srvice the C1!!!!!!!!!!!


Well hey I am going in he Function-install and ck the supply_h_y,c,m,k
and do a INISET-Y-C-M.

I seem to have read somewhere the setup ref sgnl had to start over.
also we have had many power shutoff's here due to storms and just plain
random power loss..wondering if that might have messed with the ram.
does it in pc's all the time, even with batt B/U.

[Oze]

Well hey I am going in he Function-install and ck the supply_h_y,c,m,k
and do a INISET-Y-C-M.

The SPLY you can do but do NOT do INISET.
It's only meant for when you have installed new devs or have restarted devs.
All it does is lock in the current SGNL values as a TRGT....since your issue seems to be affecting both the target values AND the signal values you'll dig yourself a deeper hole.
If you think the devs are under toning then by all means supply toner.
I STILL say the very first thing to do when you get onsite is a DC clear.
Re-enter the values off that original P-print.

seems as if the image on the drum is just not getting on the drum.
except the K black copy or scan with text or a solid black page on the scan bed.
it looks great.

But the color is just so bad.

It sounds like a bias issue affecting the itb.
When you inspect the devs...what does the brush on the black dev look like compared to the brushes of the colored devs?
I refurbed 2 irc6800 black devs yesterday and before I replaced the cylinder they had no brush at all...I replaced the cylinder and bingo...instant brush...didn't even have to touch the blade.