[Error Code] MX-FNX1 Inner Finisher jams with F1-20 code

[rayjeek]

I have MX3501 attached with MXFNX1 finisher but anytime a stapling option is selected the machine feeds all sheets through but at the point of hammering the staples then it comes up with F1-20 (alignment motor trouble). I checked the alignment motors in simulation found rear and forward ok. Before thinking of replacing finisher PWB I would like to find out if anyone has experienced the above problem and be able to help.

[bonnie750]

the harness within the finisher causes some odd faults. it's a pain to change but seems to be the root cause.

[OMD-227]

I've had this a few times now..... It took me ages to work out what was going on, but now I fix this quickly each time. Its not the harness or finisher PWB.

F1-19 & F1-20 are Finisher Pre-Alignment motor trouble (front & rear).

Basically, the staple unit runs front to rear along a lubricated shaft. There is an arm & sensor assembly attached the back of the staple unit. As the staple unit moves along the shaft, it passes 3 points which activate the arm & sensor on the back of the staple unit. The 3 points indicate where the staple unit is located along the shaft. There is one at the front, one in the middle and one at the rear. The 3 points look like small white plastic triangles. The highest point of these small white plastic triangles, activates the sensor & arm on the back of the staple unit, which tells the staple unit where it is........ hope that makes sense.

Your trouble code is caused by a slow return (or no return) of the sensor arm on the back of the staple unit. As the staple unit passes the middle point, the sensor arm is not responding when it gets to the rear point (where the staple unit is set to fire the staple).

If you were performing a staple job selecting the 3rd staple option, you would get F1-19, which is the front pre alignment trouble, as the staple unit cannot detect where the front staple position is.

I am attaching some pictures of the points which should be cleaned & lubricated. If you take the finisher out of the machine and run the staple unit back & forth with your hand, you will see the sensor arm responding slowly after passing the 3 position points. Once the sensor arm is cleaned & lubricated at the joints it sits on, the sensor arm responds quickly and activates the sensor.

You'll understand more when you have it out in front of you. There is the possibility that the sensor on the staple carriage is bad which would also cause this, but each time I've seen this, it was always the sensor arm responding too slowly, as the carriage moves quickly along the shaft.

[rayjeek]

Hi Wazza,
I seems to follow your detailed explanation, I will give a go on my next visit. Thanks a lot.

I have another MXFNX1 with 'Add Staples' message. Staple unit, staple cartridge, finisher PWB have been replaced with no good result.
Any solution to this on as well.

[OMD-227]

Haven't had that one before. Usually adding new staples solves this each time.

Check the harness going from the PWB to the stapler. Also check the Staple needle fixing lever hasn't broken.
If you need the bulletins on these issues, let me know.

[rayjeek]

I've had this a few times now..... It took me ages to work out what was going on, but now I fix this quickly each time. Its not the harness or finisher PWB.

F1-19 & F1-20 are Finisher Pre-Alignment motor trouble (front & rear).

Basically, the staple unit runs front to rear along a lubricated shaft. There is an arm & sensor assembly attached the back of the staple unit. As the staple unit moves along the shaft, it passes 3 points which activate the arm & sensor on the back of the staple unit. The 3 points indicate where the staple unit is located along the shaft. There is one at the front, one in the middle and one at the rear. The 3 points look like small white plastic triangles. The highest point of these small white plastic triangles, activates the sensor & arm on the back of the staple unit, which tells the staple unit where it is........ hope that makes sense.

Your trouble code is caused by a slow return (or no return) of the sensor arm on the back of the staple unit. As the staple unit passes the middle point, the sensor arm is not responding when it gets to the rear point (where the staple unit is set to fire the staple).

If you were performing a staple job selecting the 3rd staple option, you would get F1-19, which is the front pre alignment trouble, as the staple unit cannot detect where the front staple position is.

I am attaching some pictures of the points which should be cleaned & lubricated. If you take the finisher out of the machine and run the staple unit back & forth with your hand, you will see the sensor arm responding slowly after passing the 3 position points. Once the sensor arm is cleaned & lubricated at the joints it sits on, the sensor arm responds quickly and activates the sensor.

You'll understand more when you have it out in front of you. There is the possibility that the sensor on the staple carriage is bad which would also cause this, but each time I've seen this, it was always the sensor arm responding too slowly, as the carriage moves quickly along the shaft.

Hi wazza,
I attended the MFD today but wasn't able to resolve problem. What I have noticed is that the 3rd staple option staples ok because the firing of the staple is in front unlike the 1st staple option which staple at rear resulting in the F1-20 code. The two staple option only fires staple near to the front but no staple for rear thus giving the F1-20.
Home sensor changed state ok and the aligment motor checked ok. Is there anything you can deduce from above. Thanks

[OMD-227]

As I stated in my first post, if you were using the 3rd staple option you would get F1-19. That is the front staple position. As the front staple position works OK on your machine, but 2-point & rear staples fail, I can assume from that, the staple unit sensor arm is detecting only the front position point along the rail. As the front staple position is detected by the front position point (those small white plastic points that the sensor arm hits), it must mean that the either the sensor arm is only hitting the front timing/position point, and not successfully hitting the centre & rear points, or you still have a sluggish/slow responding sesnor arm as the staple unit travels towards the back.
On several occasions, I've had this same problem, and on many of those, it was only the F1-20 code that appeared. The F1-19 is the same code, but only for the front position sensor.
You really need to clean & lubricate with a very fine oil the joint between the sensor arm & its front & rear brackets (Parts Guide section 6, items 13, 16 & 20). Also check the small tension spring on the rear side of the staple unit that helps pulls the sensor arm back quickly after it passes one the 3 positioning/timing points. I've never had to replace it or shorten it to increase its tension, but just check it to make sure it is in place and working.
With the FNX1, you and take the finisher out of the machine and sit it on a nearby bench or boxes while it is still connected to the machine. As far as the engine is concerned, it is attached and in place. You can run all your sim tests for engine loads and sensor tests while clearly visually checking everything in front of you, not guessing what is happening due to it all being hidden behind covers. Obviously you cant run pages through the machine, but all motor/sensor sim tests are much easier this way.

The problem you are having is definitely to do with the sensor arm responding too slowly between the centre & rear positioning/timing points. This is not a PWB or harness issue. How you have explained it is exactly how I found my first F1-19 & F1-20. I have been able to fix these quickly ever since, because the cause was always something to do with that sensor arm responding too slowly.

[OMD-227]

Any updates on this one Rayjeek? Have you been back to it yet?

I'm dying here..... let me know if it was the sensor arm.

[rayjeek]

Any updates on this one Rayjeek? Have you been back to it yet?

I'm dying here..... let me know if it was the sensor arm.

So many breakdown calls are not allowing me to get back there. Will update you.

[OMD-227]

I have another MXFNX1 with 'Add Staples' message. Staple unit, staple cartridge, finisher PWB have been replaced with no good result.
Any solution to this on as well.

I actually have just been to a call with this exact symptom. An FNX1 that would always say 'Add Staples' with plenty of staples loaded. Obviously first check that client had loaded the correct staples & the right way. All of this was done correctly. Could hear the staple unit priming the cartridge, but when the staples at the ready position, would fire one staple only (poorly/mostly not fold over), then display 'Add Staples'.
Traced the fault to one missing pressure spring (should be 2) behind the front plate of the staple cartridge. This was causing the staples to not feed correctly through the cartridge, immediately showing 'Add Staples'. Confirmed fault a staple cartridge from another machine. Finisher works perfectly fine with different staple cartridge.

Check your staple cartridge. I have attached a picture of the staple cartridge and where the springs are located.

[rayjeek]

Thanks for this info but in my case we changed the cartridge but no luck and then continued to change the entire staple unit with no good result. Finally the Finisher had to be replaced, my supervisor is yet to find time to check it.

[rayjeek]

Hi Wazza, I know you have waited for too long for this one. Because we replaced the finisher I never bother about it till today when I was less busy to have a look at it. You can believe what resolved the problem. I replaced the finisher harness today and it stapled ok. Thanks.

[OMD-227]

Oh man...... That code has never been a faulty harness for me.
Since the FNX1 firmware was upgraded years ago to prevent extra harness wear-and-tear due to excessive movement, we have not had a single harness break.
I'm happy you fixed it. Keep that finisher as a spare in your workshop now.
Although, I'm still very surprised F1-20 was the harness.

[vincent64]

I have one of these in the field that is not stacking the sheets just right before it staples, the last sheet, or sometimes a middle sheet of a 10 or more sheet job is not stacked with the others, now let me say its off by maybe a MM or 1.5 MM so the staple catches the edge of the sheet, seen this happen couple times, got in there and cleaned the rollers and them belts that pull the paper back to the compliler. some times it will catch them all, sometimes it misses one or 2 in a stack.
Its in a MX 3501 and its used by a engenering dept of large paper mill, so can we say nit pick.
I could see no nicks or cuts in any paper guides, mylars look to be all in place, I am thinking static buildup in the paper.
The room is kept real cool, air in the room feels real dry, since they deal with all sorts of prints and paper work there.

[rayjeek]

Take the finisher top cover off and ensure all those rubber rollers are seated well on the reel. What I had was that the stack was misaligned as a result of one of those rubber rollers slightly came off its reel.