Canon ir2022i - Won't feed toner - Can anyone help?

[jsw2k]

This is a strange problem...it's on a Canon ir-2022i that;'s around a year old with only 35k on it.

The customer changed the cartridge (w/ an aftermarket toner) and it only lasted a couple of weeks. Replaced the toner again, and it only lasted a couple of days.

I show up and find the DVU dry and the toner cartridge not working (the sweeper roller was stiff). Replace the toner and get a call the net day with the same problem. Try different aftermarket toner...now it lasts 2 days before the problem reoccurs.

I can't figure it out. The system is very simple. The toner feeds every cycle, or is supposed to anyway, yet somehow fails to keep it up.

I've tried numerous toner cartridges to no avail (no OEM, though).

I'm gettin' killed as this customer is one of the firthest away fom me.

Can anyone help?

Thanks!!

[mrfixit51]

Same church, different pew...

I had a customer that was experiencing same problem with iR1670, and toner cartridge was to blame. I would get some Canon toner, and possibly a new developer asm and go out there again. Check how easily current developer rotates to determine if you are going to reuse it. You may want to vacuum out the crappy toner that is in it now. Place your new toner, or your new developer and toner in the machine and test it out. When you find that all is working correctly, inform the customer that further damage/calls do to poor quality toner are a billable situation. Cost savings of buying low grade toner will be outstripped by parts costs and billable labor.

[jsw2k]

Actually..

...I was out again today and, once again, the dev unit was empty. I really put it to the test, though, and found that the bucket roller (for lack of a better term -- the "blade" inside the toner cartridge) wasn't turning even though the coupling gear was. That means the dev unit was attempting to tone itself up, but was failing at the task.

I found if I manually turned the coupler on the toner cartridge itself, there was no problem; the bicket roller operated normally. It's just that the DVU can't seem to do it.

The only explanation at this point is the toner cartridge. The cartridges in use are labeled 2016/2020, but the customers machine is a 2022. I don't know if this makes a difference. My girl assures me they are the same cartridge. Obviously there is a coupling problem. Maybe there's a missing spring, but I can't imagine how or why that is. As I noted, there are already 35000 pages on the machine and there is no evidence.

I'll post more for furture ref if I figure it out all the way.

Thanks!

[xcopytech]

first try with original toner

[CanonHPTech]

Toner is the same for all of these models. GPR-18. Save yourself time and replace the Developer. They go bad on the 1330/1670 and even 1600/2010 series between 30k-60k.

[jsw2k]

Bad DVU

Thanks for the info...I noticed they are on the PM list, but the OEM recommends them to be replaced around 150K (I think). This would definitely be WAY short of that.

As an aside, the customer (who is, fortunately, NOT on cionract) had to replace the fuser unit after around 22K and even at that, had to wait 4 weeks for the parts to be available! I wonder what's going on at Canon.

Still, there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with the DVU; it's just not coupling with the toner cartridge. Have you had any trouble there?

Thanks, again.

[Oze]

Thanks for the info...I noticed they are on the PM list,

but the OEM recommends them to be replaced around 150K (I think). This would definitely be WAY short of that.

As an aside, the customer (who is, fortunately, NOT on cionract) had to replace the fuser unit after around 22K and even at that, had to wait 4 weeks for the parts to be available! I wonder what's going on at Canon.

Still, there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with the DVU; it's just not coupling with the toner cartridge. Have you had any trouble there?

Thanks, again.

Point number 1:

but the OEM recommends them to be replaced around 150K (I think). This would definitely be WAY short of that.

No chance in Hell of getting a warranty on the Dev unit as the customer used non-gen toner.
Was the aftermarket toner mono component?

Point number 2:
Why was the entire fuser replaced?
E007?
Surely a new Fixing film assy would have sufficed?
The iR2022 and the iR2018i(essentially the same machines)seem to kill fixing films and heaters WAY before their rated life.
We even had one let go after 2k
It was warrantied.

[jsw2k]

Fuser

A little off-topic, perhaps, but I'll never get a warranty from Canon as I'm not an authorized dealer.

Yes, the fixing film took a dump (I don't recall ever seeing a different problem with these fusers). We could have gone with the film OR the fuser, but since BOTH were back ordered nationally, we went for the quickest, easiest fix. Another consideration, though, was the idea that since the first fuser killed the film, there may have been issues with that unit (uneven prseeures, faulty components, etc).

As to the DVU, there is apparently nothing wrong with it. It is the toner cartridge coupling that is at issue. Replacing the DVU would WAY overkill (especially if poorly manufactured toner cartridges are at fault).

[jsw2k]

Fuser

A little off-topic, perhaps, but I'll never get a warranty from Canon as I'm not an authorized dealer.

Yes, the fixing film took a dump (I don't recall ever seeing a different problem with these fusers). We could have gone with the film OR the fuser, but since BOTH were back ordered nationally, we went for the quickest, easiest fix. Another consideration, though, was the idea that since the first fuser killed the film, there may have been issues with that unit (uneven pressures, faulty components, etc).

As to the DVU, there is apparently nothing wrong with it. It is the toner cartridge coupling that is at issue. Replacing the DVU would WAY overkill (especially if poorly manufactured toner cartridges are at fault).

[Oze]

Genuine Canon Mono component toner is very abrasive...what you tend to find is that the after market toner manufacturers try to mirror this and it damages the dev cylinder and blade.
If you're going to keep the dev you'll have to refurb it(new cylinder and blade)....remove ALL the aftermarket toner and fill it with Genuine Canon toner.
Methinks you need to educate the customer of the perils of non gen toner.
Here in Australia if a customer's machine dumps through the machine due to non genuine toner we charge them for the job....if it needs the dev refurbed or replaced we charge them parts,labor and travel.
After one or two visits to the machine...for which they pay for the privilege....they tend to see the light.

[mrfixit51]

As to the DVU, there is apparently nothing wrong with it. It is the toner cartridge coupling that is at issue. Replacing the DVU would WAY overkill (especially if poorly manufactured toner cartridges are at fault).

What is possible here, is that the toner cartridge, when it binds up, has caused damage to the geartrain in the developer that is supposed to "stir" the toner into the developer. This is why I suggested the developer in the first place

[jsw2k]

bad toner

Thanks for all the help! Hopefully I can return the favors!

Canon toner may be "abrasive" but is nowhere near as abrasive as dual-component systems. Regardless, there's no damage to the mg roller or the blade; there's no binding in the gear chain; there's no damage to the DVU whatsoever.

In fact, when I "goosed" the DVU -- which is to say I poured toner directly into the main DVU chamber -- the machine works fine, and will continue to work normally until it is out of toner -- bone dry -- because the coupling between the DVU and the toner cartridge is not happening.

This is the heart of the problem. The machine knows it's out of toner, is trying to add more toner, and the toner cartridge is not participating! Almost needless to say, since the machine has attempted to add toner, and the TDS has determined there is no toner (which there isn't), the CPU throws up the "Out-Of-Toner" indcator; all is as it should be (except for the full toner cartridge!)

An OEM toner is on it's way so I can find out for sure whether the trouble is the cartridge, or the coupling parts.

For the uninitiated, I should point out that I have been offering and using generic toner -- in Canons, Sharps, Ricohs, Minoltas, you name it -- for more than 20 years, and have had few, if any difficulties.

Is the generic toner as good as the OEM? It's very close...at least when you're talking black and white xerography, and since the big box stores and the authorized dealers have largely whored all the margins away from OEM toner, little guys like us have a profitable refuge in generic toners.

It is important to note, however, that not all generic toners are alike; there are good ones and bad ones. You do get what you pay for. Looks like we may have gone down the wrong fork in the road.

Imagine how I'd feel if, after replacing a $600 DVU, my problem persisted! Wow!

Anyway, I seem to have come upon a new problem and will post the details of the final solution, when I find it.