2 On-Going Issues 3570 and C6800 Jamming, Need Suggestions

[CanonHPTech]

Ok, I have two popular issues that I have been finding also most on a daily basiss. Please shout some suggestions for me, so I don't feel like everyday is the same day (like that movie Groundhogs Day).

1. IR C5800/C6800 Series: Left Deck jamming, code is either 0102, 0112 and have seen 0109 before also. Deck can be on a brand new machine, or on machines with the picks from the left deck well under 40K, and under 100k on the entire machine. Have one in paticualr in my teritory, where I have given to another senior tech to look at, twice, and I am back there again in a month with same issue. Swapped Rollers, inspect/cln. assembly. Watched the stock assy to see if it was lifting crooked or dropping, all that I can see is that it does bounce a pick during pick-up, but so does the Right Deck (does not jam at all). I have been trying a suggestion about taping over the gap about the Seperation Torque Limiter (because thats where it looks like the paper crashes, although, I have witnessed it go straight over the side of deck and into the gap between the deck and the ramp!) Lubed everything that moves and so did a senior tech that followed behind me. Then of course it works and picks 200-500 while your standing there... its intermitten, usually the first pick of a job. Are you guys going after the One-Way's in this or finidng that you are swapping the whole Pick-Up Assembly?

2. IR 2270/3570/4570 Series: The infamous, 2-sided jamming on the second side where the paper either crashes into the Drum or into the gap above the Registration Roller, 0107 jam code. I have customers that have told that they have bad paper (that always wins customers over, and 9 out 10 you end up adjusting around their paper) and have done several Canon suggestions for Transfer and Fixing settings, even had a few flashed to current versions. Updated Vertical Path Roller, updated Pick-Up Rollers. Most of them will run 500 pages for you fine, but your back in a week and sure enough a whole page of history for 0107 jams from the duplexer and a nice coating of un-fused toner lying inside the Drum area from all of the un-fused jams. I have one where per suggestion I have order the Registration Clutch, Registraion Senor and the Main Drive. Will be trying that out shortly, but I am not optimistic about it. What are you guys finding with this?

Band-aid fixes or tested solutions wanted- either will due to keep my sanity. Thanks in advance guys!

[Copier_Guy]

For the C6800 problem, I have experienced the same problem with Deck 2. I found that replacing the P/U assembly will fix the problem in most cases, due to the P/U Roller Shaft being defective. I started replacing the shaft instead of the whole unit to save money, but it's a real pain in the A$$ to replace. From what you desribed, it doesn't sound like your problem. It sounds more like you have a lift stack height problem. I used to jerry rig those problems by bending, slightly upward, a lever found on the front side of the P/U assembly. I don't know the technical name of the lever, but it actuates the stack height sensor. That may be worth a try if you haven't given it a tweak already. We have used the same rig on all iR models that use that feed system.

As for the Duplex Jams on the iR4570 Family, I found the Grounding strap that rides the metal registration roller on the machine side gets caked with gook and loses continuity. That can cause jams. Also the spring on the top, outboard end of the duplex assembly sometimes falls off and may not be noticed or may be stretched out and not creating enough tension. Then you have the swing guide on the upper P/U assembly. You may also have a defective Transfer Roll or Transfer Roll Bias. The Bias can be lost if after changing the T/R the tech doesn't clean out the white holder that has the bias indent in it. For jams period, of course make sure you have a good foam sheet on the lower right side door. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any other things. Sounds like you covered most things.

Sounds like you have your hands full. Please let us know of any progress.

Good Luck

[CanonHPTech]

Much appreciation for your suggestions, sir. Just a few quick questions:

IR C6800: When you say shaft... what goes wrong with it? Just curious. Also, the lever on the from, is that the backwards L-shaped lever that sits above the white arm that the Deck presses to start the lift? Just wondering, because I have seen alot of these bent up and thought it was just damage. Usually the trick with the older style decks (105, 5000), is to bend down the part above the Deck on the frame of the unit which actuates the arm on the deck and tells it how high to lift. That can cause no lift or intermitten pick problems by not letting the paper touch the rollers. Also, I noticed on the C6800 Left Deck P/U Assy., there is a solenoid in the rear (like most Assy.), that has an arm on it that does not touch or drive anything. What does it do?

IR 3570: Just curious what the swing guide is you are refering to. Are you speaking of the two black guides that sit outside of the P/U Assy? See those get warped/break alot, but usally cause skewing and single sided jams of a different code. Also, I have been finding more and more of that spring at the top of door, be missing and/or where it attaches to the door be bent down or broken. Weird thing is, most of these machines do not jam at least not with the frequency of the 0107 jammers I have seen.

Was back at one of these prob. child the other day, but had the wrong parts! Nothing tops off a stuborn machine like a wrong or defective part order. Thank you sir.

[Copier_Guy]

The problem with the P/U roller shaft was the roller latch didn't appear broken, but the roller would slide off slightly and when actuated, the shaft would spin, but the roller would not. Also, broken teeth on the gear set that drive the shaft. In the first scenario, the machine would jam, but after you look at it and "Touch" it, it would start working again, leaving you wondering, "what's wrong with this piece of crap" after your third time there.

You are correct about the lever I was speaking of. I see some of your guys use that bending trick also. I never thought of bending the part you were speaking of. I guess, for the reason you menioned. The solenoid you mentioned i'm familiar with, but not sure I remember what it's function is. If I think about it, the arm you speak of loads the pick up rollers or sponge rollers. I'm not sure which.

On the 3570, the gate I'm speaking of is the outer gate. There are 2 on the upper P/U unit, but the outer gate is problematic. You are correct in stating that it will give you constant jams, single sided, but when faced with an ongoing problem like you mentioned, leave no stone un-turned. Missing or deformed springs on the upper part of the duplex unit should be addressed. As I'm sure you have seen, some machines are so solid, they run after being dropped off a truck, but some get touchy when the weather changes. Everything is game. My philosphy is, when you have a problem machine, make sure everything is up to spec so as to rule out anomalies.

Good luck and keep us updated.

[CanonHPTech]

Ok, follow-up... finally got back (2) prob. childs today...

1. C58700 : Rep. Left Deck Pick-Up Assy. Was able to run copies fine. However, issue is intermitten and the machine is shy around techs. Although, during pick, the machine actually sound different- almost better. So will see how that goes.

2. 2270 : Rep Main Drive Assy., and Registration Clutch. Also changed TR-SPP from 0 to 50 in service mode, per post on another forum. Cleaned the VertPath Roller Shaft and One Way. Also, didn't like the way the side door was closing, upon inspection found that the top half of door (3-way unit) hinges were a lil funky, so bent the bottom on up. Still door was stuborn to close. Found that a small plastic holder that holds the pin that secures the 3-way to the right door was broken and the 3-way unit was drooping down towards rear of machine. Added some foam pads to the gap between these two doors and the door opened and closed like a charm. Also, the magnet had to be refitted, but the broken pin holder was the issue. Once again was able to run about 300 2-sided copies through. Here's hoping the door was causing the issue.

Will keep you posted about both. Thank you for your help.

[Copier_Guy]

Sounds good. Good fixes. Please keep us posted.