T1200 MFP printer/scanner question

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  • Kiran Otter
    Service Manager

    Site Contributor
    1,000+ Posts
    • Dec 2013
    • 1098

    #31
    Re: T1200 MFP printer/scanner question

    Not to be off topic but, regarding the tool.. I wouldn't expect a mechanic to charge me for a tool to fix my car. It's a cost of doing business. I wouldn't charge my customer for the tool, personally. And on the same subject, despite all of the Designjets I've worked on, replacing the paper advance motor has been an extremely rare event. The only time I can recall was a 500 that needed one simply because it was worn out.

    The roller encoder and sensor has everything to do with the paper advancing correctly. If they did replace it and the same exact problem still exists, then I would suspect the electronics module before I suspected the paper advance motor, assuming they didn't damage the new disc when installing it. It has to be pristine-clean. I suspect they put the old roller encoder disc back in after replacing the motor, and thus the same problem still exists. I'd also suspect the encoder sensor is OK; usually when it dies the printer will just throw 86:01 errors constantly thinking there's a paper jam.

    Any encoder, disc or strip, is extremely sensitive to damage and misinterpretation by the sensor reading it. I made this picture by scanning a 500 encoder disk, brand new, at 1200dpi, and had to zoom in on a section just to finally see the actual lines.. and ironically, it appears to already have some damage. But I hope it conveys how fine these microscopic lines that the sensor is looking at are.

    explorer_2018-07-13_07-44-13.jpg

    So, if they replaced the encoder disc, inspect the old one. And have them replace the disc again, and the sensor. The disc must be cleaned (allegedly with alcohol but I would just use a damp, lint free cloth) after it's installed. Also the service manual tells you to never install a previously used encoder sensor.. (I assume they mean from another printer though.) Then make sure they do the calibrations/tests outlined in the service manual when these components are replaced (Paper Drive, Paper Advance Calibration, Electronics Module, Sensors.)

    If the advance calibration fails, run the line sensor test. But, if you run a print and have the same 3.5" breaks in it.. I don't think the advance calibration could ever complete successfully. With the motor, encoder disc and sensor ruled out, the next item would be the electronics module, in my opinion.

    Sorry for being so long-winded.

    Kiran

    Comment

    • D Hook
      Trusted Tech

      100+ Posts
      • Mar 2018
      • 205

      #32
      Re: T1200 MFP printer/scanner question

      Unfortunatley, we didn't get the old disc back, which seems suspicious. I'm going to text the tech and see if they still have it.

      I can do the diagnostic test on the electronics module next.

      We WERE getting 86:01 errors before they replaced the media advance motor and the star wheel motor. None since then.

      I'll do the line sensor test again also.

      Thanks!

      Comment

      • Kiran Otter
        Service Manager

        Site Contributor
        1,000+ Posts
        • Dec 2013
        • 1098

        #33
        Re: T1200 MFP printer/scanner question

        86:01 could be caused by a bad encoder strip; maybe that's why they replaced it.

        Kiran

        Comment

        • D Hook
          Trusted Tech

          100+ Posts
          • Mar 2018
          • 205

          #34
          Re: T1200 MFP printer/scanner question

          I don't think they replaced the long strip. Just the disc.

          Comment

          • Kiran Otter
            Service Manager

            Site Contributor
            1,000+ Posts
            • Dec 2013
            • 1098

            #35
            Re: T1200 MFP printer/scanner question

            Ah, ok. In you original post you said the encoder strip.

            Kiran

            Comment

            • Lance15
              Service Manager

              Site Contributor
              1,000+ Posts
              • Jun 2015
              • 1071

              #36
              Re: T1200 MFP printer/scanner question

              regarding the tool.. I wouldn't expect a mechanic to charge me for a tool to fix my car.

              Sorry for the language, but, that's just a dick move. I don't charge for special tools either. A couple of years ago, I bought the special tools needed to work on HP's Officejet printbar printers. Never used them! Thought they might take off, so, I bought 'em.

              Comment

              • D Hook
                Trusted Tech

                100+ Posts
                • Mar 2018
                • 205

                #37
                Re: T1200 MFP printer/scanner question

                Originally posted by Kiran Otter
                Ah, ok. In you original post you said the encoder strip.

                Kiran
                My fault. I had to call them the other day to clarify because they told me originally the strip but when I called, they confirmed they did the disc. Don't know why they didn't do the media advance calibration at that time. Or maybe they tried and it didn't work for them either but didn't mention it.

                Today, I hooked up a Designjet 800 in place of the T1200 and had good luck getting it synched up with the scanner and was able to print from my computer over our network. I'm on Win 7 so it was pretty easy. The other co-worker is on Win 10 and it won't print from his so we're thinking of going back to Win 7 on his machine if our IT guys can't get it to go.

                We're making baby steps to have something working at least.

                Thanks!

                Comment

                • Kiran Otter
                  Service Manager

                  Site Contributor
                  1,000+ Posts
                  • Dec 2013
                  • 1098

                  #38
                  Re: T1200 MFP printer/scanner question

                  You can install the 800 on Windows 10 using the Windows 7 drivers from HP.



                  Kiran

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                  • copyman
                    Owner / Technician

                    Site Contributor
                    2,500+ Posts
                    • Sep 2005
                    • 4441

                    #39
                    Re: T1200 MFP printer/scanner question

                    Maybe I missed it but did they give you the special tool, that didn't work? I think you have a legitimate complaint. First off if I needed a special tool and it's a tool I wouldn't use much than I would do one of two things, like another poster said hide all or some of the cost of tool in the bill, or better yet tell the customer about extra charge for the tool, GIVE it to customer when job is complete and tell them it is a tool they will need for "proper calibration" in the future.

                    Hearing what happen with the original poster of this thread I feel bad. Wouldn't want that to happen to me. I must run my small business differently, can't remember last time I walked out of a customer's office with the machine still not repaired and handing them a bill. If I'm going to start guessing with parts than I feel an obligation to eat it if wrong. I will always try and research a strange issue before I start guessing with parts, special tools, etc.

                    Personally I would call the service manager and talk to him and about lowering bill. Point him to this forum. I hate these companies & techs that guess with part after part than after all is said and done they have the balls to hand you a bill to pay for all their wrong guesses! Than blame on something seriously wrong like a main board, etc etc. then walk away saying machine is shot. Bad business! Makes all of us look bad.

                    Comment

                    • D Hook
                      Trusted Tech

                      100+ Posts
                      • Mar 2018
                      • 205

                      #40
                      Re: T1200 MFP printer/scanner question

                      Originally posted by Kiran Otter
                      You can install the 800 on Windows 10 using the Windows 7 drivers from HP.



                      Kiran
                      Thanks Kiran. I'll try that one.

                      Appreciate the help.

                      Comment

                      • D Hook
                        Trusted Tech

                        100+ Posts
                        • Mar 2018
                        • 205

                        #41
                        Re: T1200 MFP printer/scanner question

                        Originally posted by copyman
                        Maybe I missed it but did they give you the special tool, that didn't work? I think you have a legitimate complaint. First off if I needed a special tool and it's a tool I wouldn't use much than I would do one of two things, like another poster said hide all or some of the cost of tool in the bill, or better yet tell the customer about extra charge for the tool, GIVE it to customer when job is complete and tell them it is a tool they will need for "proper calibration" in the future.

                        Hearing what happen with the original poster of this thread I feel bad. Wouldn't want that to happen to me. I must run my small business differently, can't remember last time I walked out of a customer's office with the machine still not repaired and handing them a bill. If I'm going to start guessing with parts than I feel an obligation to eat it if wrong. I will always try and research a strange issue before I start guessing with parts, special tools, etc.

                        Personally I would call the service manager and talk to him and about lowering bill. Point him to this forum. I hate these companies & techs that guess with part after part than after all is said and done they have the balls to hand you a bill to pay for all their wrong guesses! Than blame on something seriously wrong like a main board, etc etc. then walk away saying machine is shot. Bad business! Makes all of us look bad.
                        They did leave us the tool after I asked them to. And the used media transmission and motor attached to it. But not the encoder disc.

                        They want to replace the carriage next but they're not sure that's the solution either. We're looking at other options. Omaha doesn't have a lot of Designjet repair techs available it seems.

                        Thanks!

                        Comment

                        • copyman
                          Owner / Technician

                          Site Contributor
                          2,500+ Posts
                          • Sep 2005
                          • 4441

                          #42
                          Re: T1200 MFP printer/scanner question

                          Call HP directly and explain everything that has happen up to this point. Ask them for an "authorized" dealer in your area who can get factory support if they cannot resolve the issue. Tell them you will be buying new equipment soon and will not buy HP if you cannot get proper service/support!

                          Comment

                          • Kiran Otter
                            Service Manager

                            Site Contributor
                            1,000+ Posts
                            • Dec 2013
                            • 1098

                            #43
                            Re: T1200 MFP printer/scanner question

                            Originally posted by copyman
                            Call HP directly and explain everything that has happen up to this point. Ask them for an "authorized" dealer in your area who can get factory support if they cannot resolve the issue. Tell them you will be buying new equipment soon and will not buy HP if you cannot get proper service/support!
                            This is true. HP can send someone at a cost and it's a flat-fee regardless of what it takes to get it fixed. At least that's how they used to do it. I haven't inquired about it in many years.

                            Get the encoder disc replaced.

                            Kiran

                            Comment

                            • theengel
                              Service Manager

                              1,000+ Posts
                              • Nov 2011
                              • 1784

                              #44
                              Re: T1200 MFP printer/scanner question

                              I didn't know about the 86:01. If I had, I would have assumed the technician caused this. I wonder if it happened this way:

                              They see the 86:01 and it's described as a "paper jam." So they think in terms of driving the paper, and get the transmission & the encoder disk. They also clean or replace the encoder strip... maybe because they realized THAT's what would cause the 86:01. But they have to install this transmission, because the customer paid for it and the tool.

                              I've never seen the tool, so I don't know how it works. But I'm thinking they don't either, and they either used the tool wrong, or did the install wrong, and that's what is causing the problem.

                              I don't understand how they can charge that much money for that tool. The pics I'm seeing of it, it's just a little piece of plastic with a spring. I couldn't even afford one of those. I have to save up to buy a new screwdriver set.

                              Before spending more money on more parts (other than an encoder disk), I would start over and re-install the transmission. I'd bet my left arm that something was installed incorrectly.

                              Comment

                              • D Hook
                                Trusted Tech

                                100+ Posts
                                • Mar 2018
                                • 205

                                #45
                                Re: T1200 MFP printer/scanner question

                                I posted up a picture of the tool and the transmission/motor on post #21, if you're curious what it looks like.

                                Thanks!

                                Comment

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