Can laser printers be damaged by losing power during a print job?

Re: Can laser printers be damaged by losing power during a print job?

I will only add that the average "electrician" wouldn't know a power surge or voltage spike if he got hit by one.

If you think you have "dirty power" voltage spikes caused by big motors turning on or off or something similar, then you need a digital meter capable of reading instanteuos voltage with a "peak hold" feature or you need a Dranetz voltage monitor which prints out on paper the time and date of any voltage fluctuation along with the amount of voltage change.

Or an oscilloscope AND someone that knows how to use it and is willing to stand there and watch it which is not practical.

I have only had a few problems that were caused by dirty power that were diagnosed correctly.

Most times it is a fluke (no pun intended) that never happens again.
Only rarely is the source of the noise on the line found and corrected.

But it won't be found by an the electrician that shows up with a "wig wag" voltage checker.


Rich

[Tonerbomb]

Re: Can laser printers be damaged by losing power during a print job?

aab1 your efforts are duly noted and I think your questions have been answered. The conversation and bantor you inspired have been technically entertaining to say the least. My veteran collegues have provided valuble info for you. Thanks to blackcat,KenB and westom. I've tried to stay out of this one but I now had to step in and say:

This thread be closed.

Now where's that stamp that Teckat uses...

[aab1]

Re: Can laser printers be damaged by losing power during a print job?

Seriously?

I'm not referring to what comes in off the street; it's probably no less respectable than most. I am referring to the power management you have within your building.

Re-read some of your posts from the past year or so. Did you not mention that you can't run too many things at the same time? You clearly demonstrated that the power in your office is out and out awful, unless what you posted was untrue. (Of course, you could have been embellishing the facts to make your Canon sound as bad as possible.) Kinda like you saying that you are a simple end user, yet your avatar says "Service Manager". Service manager of what? I'm still befuddled by that one.

Go out and rent a quality power monitor, and let it run for at least 3 or 4 days. Be sure to do so during the heat of summer, when your AC is running - don't make it easy to get lulled into a false sense of security.

If it comes back clean, great, good for you. If not...

I said I can't run my AC and laser printer at the same time on the same circuit, this is completely normal as each by itself uses nearly the limit of amperage available on a circuit. This has nothing to do with poor electricity and everything to do with the simple fact that you can't run two 15 amp devices at once on one 15 amp circuit. That's why I always turn off my AC before getting my HP laser printer out of sleep mode, I've also run tests with a power monitor connected to my new HP to make sure it doesn't wake up by itself out of sleep mode to do maintenance as my Canon did. After over 48 hours in sleep mode, the HP never consumed more than 22 watts, while the Canon would wake up out of sleep mode by itself (or when the phone rang) and pulled over 1000 watts, so I had to shut the Canon down completely from the main power switch. This new HP only does maintenance if it's already awake (and I haven't connected it to the phone line), so I know it's safe to leave it in sleep mode while the AC is on.

I very well know it's not an ideal setup at all to have a laser copier and AC on the same circuit, but I'm well aware of the risks and am VERY careful of NEVER turning both on at the same time. It won't be on the same circuit forever though so this is temporary.

About my avatar, those titles are automatically selected by the forum based on how many posts you have, I have no control whatsoever on what is indicated there.

Update: I noticed this site, unlike others, allows you to choose your own title rather than let it be auto determined based on post count. I've made it custom to read "End User".

[fixthecopier]

Re: Can laser printers be damaged by losing power during a print job?

All of a sudden I remember that a Xerox phaser, I know it is not the type we are talking about here, does not like the power cut. I had a couple that laot power to a building and caused e-promm errors. Research showed that to be a known issue.

[KenB]

Re: Can laser printers be damaged by losing power during a print job?

This thread be closed.

Now where's that stamp that Teckat uses...

[blackcat4866]

Re: Can laser printers be damaged by losing power during a print job?

I've said what I had to say. I won't agree that a 600v surge is irrelevant or harmless.

And I'm not going to continue to argue. =^..^=

Re: Can laser printers be damaged by losing power during a print job?

I've personally documented spikes over 400v to 120v equipment.

Obviously a 400 volt spike is not desirable. But international design standards for electronics over forty years ago required equipment to withstand 600 volt spikes without damage. Today's designs are even more robust.

Protectors are not 220 volts. The number is on each box. Let through voltage is 330 volts. That defines protection from only one type of transient - not the type that is typically harmful. Often those protectors are undersized. Will self destruct on spikes too tiny to harm appliances. A failure that promotes myths and sales. These games are profitable when consumer knowledge comes without numbers. 600 volt spikes should never damage any electronics - even dimmer switches and GFCIs.

The OP's concern is damage created by a blackout. A completely different anomaly. An anomaly that must not cause any appliance damage.

Plenty of anomalies exist. Most are already made irrelevant by how appliances are designed. That laser printer is not damaged by a blackout. 400 volt spikes should not damage any electronics. The anomaly exists. But is also made irrelevant. An anomaly that concerns the OP is (should be) made irrelevant by the appliance.



BTW, what happens when incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity? DC voltages inside the ink jet printer vary by zero percent. Basic electronics knowledge makes that obvious. A 'black brick' power supply is why massive AC voltages variations exist with zero voltage change inside every printer. Another example of anomalies easily made irrelevant by the appliance.

[blackcat4866]

Re: Can laser printers be damaged by losing power during a print job?

Anomalies exist. But nobody is discussing each anomaly (power factor, harmonics, noise, floating neutral, longitudinal currents, sags, frequency variations, etc). Subjective claims lump everything into speculation about 'dirty' power. No numbers are posted to define 'dirty'. Informed posts would routinely include such numbers.

Electronics (even more than 40 years ago) made most anomalies irrelevant. For example, electronics work perfectly OK even when incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity. That says nothing about power companies. Anomalies exist. And are made irrelevant by what exists inside appliances.

The OP repeated; he does not have power problems. Why do so many harp about what is irrelevant? Power problems are an irrelevant speculation. Scams, promoted to cure mythical power problems, are why so many quickly assume 'dirty' power. The myth works if one does not demand underlying facts (ie which anomaly and quantified).

I'll have to beg to differ on this one. There are frequent occurrences of dirty power in our field. And perhaps appliances make these anomalies irrelevant, but MFP's will burn up circuitry, jam unexplainably, and have logic lockups. And they are relevant. aab1 is not talking about this, but I am. I've personally documented spikes over 400v to 120v equipment. Are you going to say that's it's irrelevant? And a good quality surge suppressor will only limit the overvoltage to 220v. And the greatest problem is ground-to-neutral or floating grounds, on ground switching equipment. We're not talking about a light bulb here, which will tolerate +300% -100%. We're talking about 5v logic circuits that will not function beyond +/-10% of the rated voltage.

Most of these anomalies remain undocumented, and do exist, and are significant.

BTW, laser printers do not have print heads. Laser printers transfer and fuse a charged 'powder' to paper. No print head exists to 'park' or protect.

Sure, aab1 has mixed up his comments. Konica Minolta uses the term print head to refer to the laser unit, but I'm pretty sure that's not what he means. And in thermal transfer printing the term print head refers to the transfer heater, again something different. Laser equipment does not have a true print head.

The OP has one different concern. A UPS has one purpose. To provide temporary and 'dirtiest' power during a blackout. Unexpected power loss (one of a few anomalies that appliances do not solve internally) is a concern. But does not damage $200 print heads.

Inkjet printers also do not have print heads. Dry ink on a cartridge is easily solved using a tissue and solvent such as rubbing alcohol.

This is a valid issue. Inkjet jet printers do have print heads and the print heads are vulnerable in a couple different ways. Firstly the low voltage cicuitry inside the print head can be damaged by spikes, even undocumented ones. Secondly and more significantly, the orifaces in the print head park over a capping assembly when not in use so the ink does not dry in the openings. When printing halts in mid-scan the head is not protected by the capping assembly. Over a period of 48+ hours the head(s) could conceivably dry up and require replacement. A creative person might remove the print heads, lightly clean the surface with alcohol, and cover the print surface with a layer of plastic tape. That would slow down the drying process.

Damn! How did I get drawn into this? =^..^=

Re: Can laser printers be damaged by losing power during a print job?

You come across as some sort of public relations rep for the power company. Are you seriously denying the existence of dirty power?

Anomalies exist. But nobody is discussing each anomaly (power factor, harmonics, noise, floating neutral, longitudinal currents, sags, frequency variations, etc). Subjective claims lump everything into speculation about 'dirty' power. No numbers are posted to define 'dirty'. Informed posts would routinely include such numbers.

Electronics (even more than 40 years ago) made most anomalies irrelevant. For example, electronics work perfectly OK even when incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity. That says nothing about power companies. Anomalies exist. And are made irrelevant by what exists inside appliances.

The OP repeated; he does not have power problems. Why do so many harp about what is irrelevant? Power problems are an irrelevant speculation. Scams, promoted to cure mythical power problems, are why so many quickly assume 'dirty' power. The myth works if one does not demand underlying facts (ie which anomaly and quantified).

The OP has one different concern. A UPS has one purpose. To provide temporary and 'dirtiest' power during a blackout. Unexpected power loss (one of a few anomalies that appliances do not solve internally) is a concern. But does not damage $200 print heads.

BTW, laser printers do not have print heads. Laser printers transfer and fuse a charged 'powder' to paper. No print head exists to 'park' or protect.

Inkjet printers also do not have print heads. Dry ink on a cartridge is easily solved using a tissue and solvent such as rubbing alcohol.

[KenB]

Re: Can laser printers be damaged by losing power during a print job?

You come across as some sort of public relations rep for the power company. Are you denying the existence of dirty power? For real? =^..^=

You, Sir,are a mind reader.

[KenB]

Re: Can laser printers be damaged by losing power during a print job?

Thanks, but in case I wasn't clear, for the inkjet printer I wasn't worried power loss would damage any of the electronics, I had it on a UPS so that in case of a power failure while printing, I'd be able to stop the print job and allow the printer to park the heads airtight service station do they wouldn't dry out. I never did end up having a power failure while printing.

By the way I'm rather confused at people saying I have power problems, I have probably among the most reliable power there is, with power failures occurring probably less than once per year, but I still wanted the inkjet on a UPS as the print heads could cost up to $200.

If a power outage can't damage a laser printer like it can an inkjet then I'll leave the laser printer off the UPS.

Seriously?

I'm not referring to what comes in off the street; it's probably no less respectable than most. I am referring to the power management you have within your building.

Re-read some of your posts from the past year or so. Did you not mention that you can't run too many things at the same time? You clearly demonstrated that the power in your office is out and out awful, unless what you posted was untrue. (Of course, you could have been embellishing the facts to make your Canon sound as bad as possible.) Kinda like you saying that you are a simple end user, yet your avatar says "Service Manager". Service manager of what? I'm still befuddled by that one.

Go out and rent a quality power monitor, and let it run for at least 3 or 4 days. Be sure to do so during the heat of summer, when your AC is running - don't make it easy to get lulled into a false sense of security.

If it comes back clean, great, good for you. If not...

[blackcat4866]

Re: Can laser printers be damaged by losing power during a print job?

westom: I think you completely missed the point. That attachment is a documented case of dirty power, causing the NIC to drop off the network several times a day.

The point is that until a power quality analyzed is installed to record events, you really don't know anything for sure. That's all.

Logic level circuits run at 5v, and usually trigger at 3.5v (<3.5v = low (0), >3.5v = high (1)). If your ground to neutral varies by more than 1v it can mean the difference between a 0 or 1, low or high, running or jammed.

You come across as some sort of public relations rep for the power company. Are you seriously denying the existence of dirty power? For real?
=^..^=

[aab1]

Re: Can laser printers be damaged by losing power during a print job?

You suspicions are properly founded. Nothing electronic is damaged by power loss. [...]

Thanks, but in case I wasn't clear, for the inkjet printer I wasn't worried power loss would damage any of the electronics, I had it on a UPS so that in case of a power failure while printing, I'd be able to stop the print job and allow the printer to park the heads airtight service station do they wouldn't dry out. I never did end up having a power failure while printing.

By the way I'm rather confused at people saying I have power problems, I have probably among the most reliable power there is, with power failures occurring probably less than once per year, but I still wanted the inkjet on a UPS as the print heads could cost up to $200.

If a power outage can't damage a laser printer like it can an inkjet then I'll leave the laser printer off the UPS.

Re: Can laser printers be damaged by losing power during a print job?

I realize that the power companies have overall got their proverbial act together, (I've heard that the 60 Hz power is regulated to 3-4 cycles per year), but they're not perfect by any means.

[blackcat4866]

Re: Can laser printers be damaged by losing power during a print job?

Until you've connected a PQA, you really have no idea how crappy the power is. This event log came from a factory setting: