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  1. #11
    Service Manager 10,000+ Posts
    Taskalpha 356ci- Black toner empty

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    Re: Taskalpha 356ci- Black toner empty

    Quote Originally Posted by blackcat4866 View Post
    I'm having a different read:

    1) I suspect that the toner hopper is working properly taking the toner from the bottle.
    2) If you can pour some toner in manually and satisfy the toner sensor, I suspect that you have a fully functional developing unit. If you were losing agitation or had a disfunctional toner sensor, the toner add condition would never clear, even momentarily.

    Sorry that I can't offer a specific solution (I've not ever seen this model), but I have a suspect. On a Toshiba eS2550C I had a slightly malformed toner waste bottle. On the Toshiba, inserting the waste bottle actuates a spring loaded shutter to open up the port in the top of the developing unit. The malformed bottle was missing the feature that opened the cyan port, so it never got replenished with cyan toner. I could pour in toner to make the cyan developing unit happy, and the toner feed tube (just a vertical tube without any auger) would pack full indicating the hopper was supplying the tube, it just wasn't making it into the top of the developing unit.

    Does that sound similar? =^..^=

    The reason I suspected the DV unit over toner not making it to the DV unit is because he said he could forcibly add toner and it satisficed the toner sensor. I'm assuming he added toner via a simulation. If he poured the toner in by hand, that's a different story.

    But still, even adding toner thru a simulation doesn't necessarily rule out a partially blocked toner path. I think.

  2. #12
    Service Manager 10,000+ Posts
    Taskalpha 356ci- Black toner empty

    BillyCarpenter's Avatar
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    Re: Taskalpha 356ci- Black toner empty

    I'm looking for some feedback on this one if anyone wants to jump in.

    A failed (open) toner sensor will never be satisfied no matter how much toner is in the DV unit because it's open. A toner sensor is an inductor and when the DV unit is rotating, a magnetic field is created and the flux lines cut across the inductor creating a small current which is read by the internal circuitry to determine the proper DV to toner ratio.

    However, if the toner sensor is merely "weak" and not open, it takes more toner than normal to satisfy the sensor and if that level of toner is not reached in a certain amount of time, the machine will display a toner empty message.

    That's what I remember from many years ago. True or false?

  3. #13
    Master Of The Obvious 10,000+ Posts
    Taskalpha 356ci- Black toner empty

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    Re: Taskalpha 356ci- Black toner empty

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyCarpenter View Post
    I'm looking for some feedback on this one if anyone wants to jump in.

    A failed (open) toner sensor will never be satisficed no matter how much toner is in the DV unit because it's open. A toner sensor an inductor and when the DV unit is rotating, a magnetic field is created and the flux lines cut across the inductor creating a small current which is read by the internal circuitry to determine the proper DV to toner ratio.

    However, if the toner sensor is merely "weak" and not open, it takes more toner than normal to satisfy the sensor and if that level of toner is not reached in a certain amount of time, the machine will display a toner empty message.

    That's what I remember from many years go. True or false?
    True. There is a little more to it though.

    If the rubber wiper comes off or is damaged it leaves a layer of unagitated developer setting right on top of the sensor, giving a falsely low reading. Also you can get a hardened layer of toner on the toner sensor surface, keeping the agitated developer away from the sensor, also giving a falsely low reading. On certain models of Toshibas and Mitas it's routine to use a knife blade to scrape away any toner buildup from the toner sensor surface at the developer change. On these machines, if you don't scrape the toner sensor at the developer change there's a high likelihood that the developer stir will fail "low density". That also accounts for the gradual increase in toner density. =^..^=
    If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
    1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
    2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
    3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
    4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
    5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

    blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

  4. #14
    Service Manager 10,000+ Posts
    Taskalpha 356ci- Black toner empty

    BillyCarpenter's Avatar
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    Re: Taskalpha 356ci- Black toner empty

    Quote Originally Posted by blackcat4866 View Post
    True. There is a little more to it though.

    If the rubber wiper comes off or is damaged it leaves a layer of unagitated developer setting right on top of the sensor, giving a falsely low reading. Also you can get a hardened layer of toner on the toner sensor surface, keeping the agitated developer away from the sensor, also giving a falsely low reading. On certain models of Toshibas and Mitas it's routine to use a knife blade to scrape away any toner buildup from the toner sensor surface at the developer change. On these machines, if you don't scrape the toner sensor at the developer change there's a high likelihood that the developer stir will fail "low density". That also accounts for the gradual increase in toner density. =^..^=
    Agreed. All of those things that you mentioned will give a false reading. Good explanation.

  5. #15
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    Re: Taskalpha 356ci- Black toner empty

    Billy,
    On the first return trip to the site, the tech and service manager put the old dv unit in and the machine did come back to ready. But, the old DV unit was still also filled with toner so that's not necessarily a true statement. The toner sensor appears to be working on the new dv unit as when it's "empty" the sensor reads 250 or above and declares toner empty. If you manually add toner to the new dv unit, the reading drops to 220-230 depending on the amount added and then rises back to the 250 threshold as sky shots are made.

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyCarpenter View Post
    Sounds to me like the toner sensor in the DV is the problem. What is the toner sensor control voltage -U131??

    PS - Have you tried putting the old DV unit back in to see if the problem goes away?

    Edit: Also, print the Event Log and look for a C7101 error - Toner Sensor K error.

    EDIT II: You said you did a "swap" of the K DV unit. New or used?

  6. #16
    Service Manager 10,000+ Posts
    Taskalpha 356ci- Black toner empty

    BillyCarpenter's Avatar
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    Re: Taskalpha 356ci- Black toner empty

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisG View Post
    Billy,
    On the first return trip to the site, the tech and service manager put the old dv unit in and the machine did come back to ready. But, the old DV unit was still also filled with toner so that's not necessarily a true statement.
    But what happened after you ran skyshots with the old DV back in? Did it go back to saying toner empty or did work as it should?

    Also, when you say that you "manually" added toner, do you mean you did it by hand or did you forcibly add toner via U132?
    Last edited by BillyCarpenter; 01-18-2021 at 03:59 PM.

  7. #17
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    Re: Taskalpha 356ci- Black toner empty

    Maybe checking from enclosed description can be helpfull in this case.
    I would check the motor or pipe.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  8. #18
    Service Manager 10,000+ Posts
    Taskalpha 356ci- Black toner empty

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    Re: Taskalpha 356ci- Black toner empty

    Quote Originally Posted by KYO_OEM View Post
    Maybe checking from enclosed description can be helpfull in this case.
    I would check the motor or pipe.

    KYO,

    That's a very detailed overview of how the toner system functions in a Kyocera. Very detailed. I haven't really looked over it closely but I have a quick question:


    - When they refer to "toner gauge", they're talking about the reading from the toner chip....correct?

  9. #19
    Service Manager 10,000+ Posts
    Taskalpha 356ci- Black toner empty

    BillyCarpenter's Avatar
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    Re: Taskalpha 356ci- Black toner empty

    I THINK I understand now. I always thought that the toner gauge (toner chip) went down by 1 based on the meter reading of the machine. But that wouldn't make much sense now that I think about it. Let me explain and hopefully I'm understanding correctly.

    If the toner gauge (toner chip) dropped by 1 every time a page was printed, the reading would be way off because toner coverage differs from page to page. Instead the toner chip gage is the indication which is calculated by pixel count and rotation count of toner motor. That will give a much more accurate indication of how much toner is left in the cartridge.

    Lastly, "toner empty" has nothing to do with the toner gauge...it's determined by the toner sensor.

    Did I pass or fail?

    PS - I'm assuming that the rotation of the toner motor is calculated by the encoder wheel?

  10. #20
    Service Manager 10,000+ Posts
    Taskalpha 356ci- Black toner empty

    BillyCarpenter's Avatar
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    Re: Taskalpha 356ci- Black toner empty

    The information KYO posted is getting more interesting by the second. This is a very complex process.

    When the toner gauge is above the 4k count, the machines uses the rotation of the toner motor + pixel count to determine how much toner is in the cartridge. Once the toner gauge drops below 4k, the toner motor rotation is broken and at this point, the machine relies only on pixel count.

    At 1000 pages remaining print gauge, “toner low “ message appears. And toner gage value changes to 5%.The "toner low" message in the toner gauge (chip) is detected by toner sensor in the DV. Once the toner sensor in the DV determines that the toner is low in the DV unit, you can print 20 pages after that and then the "toner empty" message will appear and no printing will be allowed.

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