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stacyrf
06-06-2008, 11:07 PM
I have a problem with several of my di350 and di250 models on duplexing. when the machine duplexes more then one copy of the original the machine will jam at the exit of the fuser. the paper will come out of the fuser after fusing side one and start to return back into the machine to be flipped to copy side 2 but only goes in about 2 inches then is pushed back out of the fuser resulting in a paper jam since that paper never reaches the sensor in the duplexer. I have spoken to several people at minolta and none of them have ever heard of this problem. I have at least 6 machines if not more doing this exact same thing. the jam does not occur every time (the dreaded intermittant word) but does so often enough for me to duplicate the problem on a visit. anyone else seen this or have a solution? I've tried new fuser, new duplexer, new bypass (since it's used in the duplex process), new control boards. I just don't think these copiers like it here in my town.

mtech
06-07-2008, 02:46 AM
Sorry, but I work on these and they just don't like it anywhere. I have not seen this. I have seen duplex units cracked by slamming the door. Do you think it is a logic problem rather than mechanical? Try reflashing the machine? God help you!

MinoltaManager
06-07-2008, 03:04 AM
I have at least 250 of these in the field and have never seen this one!

Check that the paper is showing the correct size on the display and reinstall the firmware. Good luck! I will ask my techs at our next service meeting if any have run into this one and if so, I will post your answer here.:)

nmfaxman
06-07-2008, 04:17 AM
Make sure the screws attaching the duplexer to the machine are tight.
Also check the support brackets are set right.
The duplexor has to be flush with the side of the machine.

Elle
06-07-2008, 11:39 AM
wow that sounds exactly like a problem i just had on a NEC IT3530D - i was lost with it. this machine was also scoring the drum at the rear side so the plan was to fix the duplexing problem first (i had clutches on order and a switchback sensor in hand) so i cleaned the clutches as best as i could and replaced the switchback sensor but the problem remained, i did find that the captured screw at the bottom of the gear cover on the duplex was missing so i replaced that too to no avail. after all of that i decided it was time to at least fix the drum problem for clean copy single sided. new drum, new dev unit, new developer. i closed it all up and it made great single sided copies - i tried duplexing one more time and much to my amazement it worked. inspecting the dev unit revealed a missing mylar to match the scoring on the drum also a considerable amount of arcing was evident - we still dont know why the dev unit made that much difference with duplexing and guessing just left us with possible latent charge in the copies and thats still our best guess. anyways i know its not quite the same machine but maybe this will help some. good luck

fixthecopier
06-07-2008, 12:47 PM
I have had tons of these machines in the field and lots of duplexer problems. I think KM tech support is made up of people who have never worked in the field and just read out of the manuals that we have. The duplexer on 250/350 and 251/351 work the same. If the drive motor on the duplexer gets weak you will have trouble. A weak motor will even cause problems doing single side copies. Take the duplexer off of a good working machine, swap and see if problem goes away. If it does then change the top motor on the duplexer. If trouble stays then swap the fuser. If that fixes it look at the exit rollers on the fuser. It's rare but sometimes they can cause trouble. Hope this helps.

fixthecopier
06-07-2008, 12:59 PM
Sorry, its morning and I didn't read all the way down to see that you traded out those parts. Lets try the big stuff. Swap the main drive motor for the machine, it's not that hard. If that does not get it, then swap the MFB from a working machine, that is where your firmware is. Good luck!

stacyrf
06-09-2008, 07:06 PM
well like I said, I have at least half a dozen that do this. I would suspect that I have many more but I am thinking that alot of my customers simply do not do duplex copies, or do the occasional 1 or 2 duplex copies so they do not notice this problem. like everyone else I have many of these copiers in the field, probably around 100 or so. I have swapped out the duplexer, fuser, bypass, mfb board with known good units. This happens when no finisher is present so I ruled out the horizontal transport. still baffled that no one else that I talk to experiences this problem, especially those of you with 200 something of these units in field. quite possible that your customers don't do alot of duplexer as well I guess.

fixthecopier
06-09-2008, 08:06 PM
Sorry, but I have never fought that one. By chance would you have noticed if the text on any of the copies in the machine when it stops, is off center. Could a clutch slipping be throwing the timing off?

stacyrf
06-09-2008, 10:43 PM
no the copies are normal looking, nothing out of the ordinary.

wagon
06-09-2008, 11:03 PM
Try changing the fuser exit sensor - they play up lots in these models.

fixthecopier
06-10-2008, 03:15 AM
As best I can remember, 8 years ago after getting my 250/350 boxes, we got one of those throw ins you sometimes get with a big contract in the form of a board upgrade. The board I believe was called the PWB "N", and it is the one that plugs onto the MFB. It was supposed to be the same as a firmware upgrade. I can't remember what problem it was spposed to fix, I would put em in cause they were free and I had a bunch. As a longshot if you had a machine that you knew didn't have the problem, I would swap the MFB on one that you could repeat the jam on, and see if there is a difference. If it is a brain problem, it has to be in the MFB. Good Luck.

DadO
06-10-2008, 08:10 AM
Since i did work canon machines (and still do what left of them in field ) , i crossed a lot of duplex problem becose firmware on 22xx and etc , so we had upgrade the machines. Cant tell the difference since they where working whit no problem.

U tell us that u put more of copies to duplex them? Im tapping in the dark but pickup assy would cause paper jam since he stops while the papers are duplex. I know if u put 100 single side to copy, they will come out but when duplex is activated....check it out

wagon
06-10-2008, 11:36 AM
A dirty old timing jam... I hadn't thought of that! With duplex operation the timing is more critical, so more jams. Is the rego roller, manual bypass, vertical transports clean/and bushes lubed? Are the feed tyres good? (these were crap on these machines!) Has it got a finisher or job tray after the fuser? Is the fuser free to turn? Is that white-coloured 'gear carrier' at the right-hand side of the fuser OK?

stacyrf
06-10-2008, 04:43 PM
A dirty old timing jam... I hadn't thought of that! With duplex operation the timing is more critical, so more jams. Is the rego roller, manual bypass, vertical transports clean/and bushes lubed? Are the feed tyres good? (these were crap on these machines!) Has it got a finisher or job tray after the fuser? Is the fuser free to turn? Is that white-coloured 'gear carrier' at the right-hand side of the fuser OK?

That is what I was thinking wagon. some sort of timing issue. as far as feed tires, I try to keep those either clean or replaced as I agree the tires are crap. I have to rule out the fuser, manual bypass, and duplexer, as I have swapped those out. This problem is on machines with or without a finisher so the horizontal transport is out of the question. I have changed the MFB board, but I can't help but think that the problem stills lies there. I guess I'll try to swap that again.

aussieducker
08-12-2010, 04:54 AM
I too are having this same fault on a 250. no problem on a single (1) output of a double sided document but when asking for 3+ a blank sheet is jammed in the inversion unit with the other 3 sheets in the ADU paper path. No noises heard from inversion motor and no evidence of timing or rego issues or jams for that matter in single side mode.

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