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Geo
02-05-2016, 10:49 PM
:mad: Hi Folks...
Hope I can get some help/ ideas for my problem
Have a 3050ci that gives skewed output on all cassettes and bypass , most noticeable on 11 by 17. Lead edge is OK ,trailing edge and sides are off. U034 test pattern confirms skewing. The skewing is consistent. Not 100% sure ,but the image on the transfer belt seems skewed.
I have tried the following without success.
U051
Reg Roller
Holder middle pulley with modification and new springs
k-Laser unit
Entire paper conveying unit
Transfer belt.
entire laser assy.
Tried adjusting(left side of copier) laser assy without any change.
Removed, cleaned and re-seated all dv and drum units.
Adj color reg manually and auto...AND flashed firmware
At this point I have run out of things to try and the customer is PISSED....ANY help,ideas or suggestions would be much appreciated
THANKS.

blackcat4866
02-06-2016, 02:42 AM
I've seen this issue on several occasions. To re-iterate, the leading edge is perfectly square, and the image warps to the front or back. My samples were 10mm off square at the trail edge of ledger.

On Kyocera Falcon II: Enduser slamming the door causes broken interlock cover. The broken pieces fall down into the pre-registration mylar.

On Kyocera VoyagerE: Uneven fixing pressure.

On Kyocera Saturn: Labels fed from tray #1, left throughout the machine, especially on the registration roller.

On KM bizhub C360: Transfer assembly is unlatched at the rear.

On KM bizhub C452: Heavy toner buildup on fuser inlet guides.

On KM bizhub C454e: Labels adhered to the inner registration roller rear.

On e Studio 452: Inadequate loop setting for tray #2 and #3.

On e Studio 352, 2500C, 3540C: Broken rack gear on tray #1 rear paper guide.

On Sharp AR-M160: Paper cuts appear in the paper tray guides.

=^..^=

Geo
02-08-2016, 02:35 PM
Hi Blackcat

Thanks for the tips, good stuff, unfortunately the entire paper path has been checked by multiple people.
The box has 98K Color and 15K Black. Tech support is giving me the skew is within spec excuse. For the customer it's unacceptable and I have looked at other copiers and they are perfectly squared. We have spent 30+ hours banging our heads on this.....VERY frustrating.

copydocinc
02-08-2016, 07:37 PM
Just throwing this out there.
How about the door? Maybe front or rear latch is loose or where the door hinges could be screwy.
This would of course end up effecting the pressure on a number of conveyance rollers.

Ctl-Alt-Del
02-08-2016, 10:03 PM
How much skew do you have at the trail edge of the 11x17?
Is it off by the same amount on both corners at the trail edge
Any blur on the image at the trail edge when compared to the lead edge?

blackcat4866
02-08-2016, 10:19 PM
I looked at a KM-3551 recently that was 1.5mm skewed down the length of ledger. Technically that is just within specs. On the Alphards you'll find a skew adjustment in the paper tray. You loosen 4 screws in the cassette base, then use a cam to rotate the entire guide/rack gear assembly slightly, then tighten the screws. Using this adjustment, I was able to correct it down to 0.5mm. Not as good as I wanted, but satisfactory for the customer. =^..^=

Geo
02-09-2016, 02:59 PM
Just throwing this out there.
How about the door? Maybe front or rear latch is loose or where the door hinges could be screwy.
This would of course end up effecting the pressure on a number of conveyance rollers.

Hi
I actually replaced the entire door assy with a known good one. No change and I even tried different springs for the front and rear idle rollers.

Thanks

Geo
02-09-2016, 03:11 PM
How much skew do you have at the trail edge of the 11x17?
Is it off by the same amount on both corners at the trail edge
Any blur on the image at the trail edge when compared to the lead edge?

The lead edge is spot on, the trail edge if off by 1.5 mm and the entire image shifted to one side by about the same amount. No blurs.

Thanks

Geo
02-09-2016, 03:24 PM
I looked at a KM-3551 recently that was 1.5mm skewed down the length of ledger. Technically that is just within specs. On the Alphards you'll find a skew adjustment in the paper tray. You loosen 4 screws in the cassette base, then use a cam to rotate the entire guide/rack gear assembly slightly, then tighten the screws. Using this adjustment, I was able to correct it down to 0.5mm. Not as good as I wanted, but satisfactory for the customer. =^..^=

Hi
Tried adjusting the paper trays. No change and the image skew is consistent from all the trays and MPF. Yes "technically" the image is within specs.....However ,the customer is printing full color edge to edge posters(20-24lb paper) and the skew is very obvious, furthermore the customer insists that the skew is recent.

Thanks

GUNit
02-09-2016, 03:48 PM
Hi
Tried adjusting the paper trays. No change and the image skew is consistent from all the trays and MPF. Yes "technically" the image is within specs.....However ,the customer is printing full color edge to edge posters(20-24lb paper) and the skew is very obvious, furthermore the customer insists that the skew is recent.

Thanks
if the image is skewed on the transfer belt then you can discount paper feed. if internal prints are skewed then discount optics which leaves engine more than likely laser, maybe not seated correctly or an adjustment on the Lsu itself. if the paper feed is proven then maybe once the paper has the first inch or so of the image which would make the lead edge not skewed then maybe something on the fuser or exit kicking the paper to one side? but it all comes back to why is the image skewed on the transfer belt? good luck please post back with fix.

Geo
02-09-2016, 04:32 PM
if the image is skewed on the transfer belt then you can discount paper feed. if internal prints are skewed then discount optics which leaves engine more than likely laser, maybe not seated correctly or an adjustment on the Lsu itself. if the paper feed is proven then maybe once the paper has the first inch or so of the image which would make the lead edge not skewed then maybe something on the fuser or exit kicking the paper to one side? but it all comes back to why is the image skewed on the transfer belt? good luck please post back with fix.

Hi
I replaced the K laser unit, no change , than swapped the entire laser assembly (frame with lasers), no change. AND tried a new fuser, no change....What you are saying about the skewed image on the transfer belt is bugging me the most and I think is the key to the problem, that's why I tried the K laser than the entire assy.

Thanks

GUNit
02-09-2016, 05:24 PM
Hi
I replaced the K laser unit, no change , than swapped the entire laser assembly (frame with lasers), no change. AND tried a new fuser, no change....What you are saying about the skewed image on the transfer belt is bugging me the most and I think is the key to the problem, that's why I tried the K laser than the entire assy.

Thanks
just wondering what its like if you do single colour cyan or magenta will it be skewed as there are 4 individual lasers just wondering now if someone has maybe been playing with the allen screws on the front of the laser accessible behind drum and dev unit cover as if my memory serves me right adjusts the angles of the laser mirrors. if skewed on transfer it can only be laser unless the belt is wandering off somehow, hope this helps

Geo
02-09-2016, 07:09 PM
just wondering what its like if you do single color cyan or magenta will it be skewed as there are 4 individual lasers just wondering now if someone has maybe been playing with the allen screws on the front of the laser accessible behind drum and dev unit cover as if my memory serves me right adjusts the angles of the laser mirrors. if skewed on transfer it can only be laser unless the belt is wandering off somehow, hope this helps

It's on all colors, that's why I swapped the entire laser assy with a known good on. I was told be tech support that the K laser image is used as a reference point for all the colors and image. That's why at first I replaced the K laser.

Thanks

NeoMatrix
02-09-2016, 09:06 PM
Is the machine sitting on level ground/floor eg. uneven tiles ?

Has the main frame of the machine been twisted updown or skewed sideways during transport?
Has the entire machine been carelessly lifted/dropped on one corner of the machine ?

I'm thinking with a bent main frame the rego-rollers might not be sitting exactly linear, and may be moving the copy paper to the front/rear side during conveyancing.

Geo
02-09-2016, 10:20 PM
Is the machine sitting on level ground/floor eg. uneven tiles ?

Has the main frame of the machine been twisted updown or skewed sideways during transport?
Has the entire machine been carelessly lifted/dropped on one corner of the machine ?

I'm thinking with a bent main frame the rego-rollers might not be sitting exactly linear, and may be moving the copy paper to the front/rear side during conveyancing.

Hi
The floor is level and according to the customer output was normal after installation. Also the copier is sitting on the 3k paper deck.We pulled the copier and gave then the same for a loaner and the loaner is working perfectly. I keep thinking that the image was not completely square to the paper from jump street ,but the customer swears that output was perfect until several months ago..VERY FRUSTRATING...

Thanks

20gaugeO/U
03-23-2016, 03:35 PM
You mention it in your initial post but I'm just checking you did Service Bulletin E164-2N4-0025 (which would have changed if you used an entirely different conveying unit).

Our machine is in a church that really isn't noticing but an autistic child in the daycare brought it to their attention.

I attached a pic from our Tech Rep from a feed port itself. We found that if you pulled out Trays 1 or 3 and reached in and put finger pressure on trail edge front or rear of the paper you could mess with the "skew" on legal and ledger which is the most noticeable. I haven't been back to "bend" the metal, we messed around with different springs from our "bag o' springs" cause the little one's that are in there are weak little pieces of crap.

Hope this helps. Good times making big changes and getting the same results

tmaged
12-07-2018, 05:00 PM
Hi
The floor is level and according to the customer output was normal after installation. Also the copier is sitting on the 3k paper deck.We pulled the copier and gave then the same for a loaner and the loaner is working perfectly. I keep thinking that the image was not completely square to the paper from jump street ,but the customer swears that output was perfect until several months ago..VERY FRUSTRATING...

Thanks
Any update on this Geo ? I have a couple of 3050ci's I'm having trouble with.
Thanks,

Phil B.
12-07-2018, 07:43 PM
I've seen this issue on several occasions. To re-iterate, the leading edge is perfectly square, and the image warps to the front or back. My samples were 10mm off square at the trail edge of ledger.
On Kyocera Falcon II: Enduser slamming the door causes broken interlock cover. The broken pieces fall down into the pre-registration mylar.
On Kyocera VoyagerE: Uneven fixing pressure.
On Kyocera Saturn: Labels fed from tray #1, left throughout the machine, especially on the registration roller.
On KM bizhub C360: Transfer assembly is unlatched at the rear.
On KM bizhub C452: Heavy toner buildup on fuser inlet guides.
On KM bizhub C454e: Labels adhered to the inner registration roller rear.
On e Studio 452: Inadequate loop setting for tray #2 and #3.
On e Studio 352, 2500C, 3540C: Broken rack gear on tray #1 rear paper guide.
On Sharp AR-M160: Paper cuts appear in the paper tray guides.
=^..^=

I admire a tech that keeps notes on weird issues.. Kudos!

tmaged
12-09-2018, 01:21 AM
I went back to check out mine, and the lead edge is varying in 089 prints. Has anyone had to replace the clutch on the silver resist roller, or the rubber roller below it for a lead edge issue. I never have, and have had quite a few machines over 2 mil pages on them. This one has considerably less.
Thanks !

Geo
12-10-2018, 03:47 PM
Any update on this Geo ? I have a couple of 3050ci's I'm having trouble with.
Thanks,

My apologies for not posting my fix.

Looking at the PDF that "20gaugeo/u" posted , the springs that apply pressure to the 4 white pressure rollers in the paper feed units are completely useless , old or new. If you look at the rollers on older assemblies you will actually see a gap between them and the upper rubber roller. I believe that roller is supposed to correct any skew from the cassettes. So , I replaced the springs ( 4 ) with springs and caps from the top of 6501/8000 conveying section. Part numbers are " 302K929780 spring " and " 2FM04150 Cap " . The springs are the same diameter but substantially stronger.

This solved my skewing problem, don't bother with new units ( they still skew ) unless they are using stronger springs. I haven't ordered any in a while so I don't know if they are.

Cheers,,,

blackcat4866
12-10-2018, 03:53 PM
Sounds like the fix for the FalconIII and Voyager. On these models they came with (1) spring each shaft, but there are places for (3) springs. Two of the standard springs in the outer positions is the fix for those models. (3) springs is too much pressure. The door pops open by itself, inconveniently. =^..^=

blackcat4866
12-20-2018, 01:05 AM
My apologies for not posting my fix.

Looking at the PDF that "20gaugeo/u" posted , the springs that apply pressure to the 4 white pressure rollers in the paper feed units are completely useless , old or new. If you look at the rollers on older assemblies you will actually see a gap between them and the upper rubber roller. I believe that roller is supposed to correct any skew from the cassettes. So , I replaced the springs ( 4 ) with springs and caps from the top of 6501/8000 conveying section. Part numbers are " 302K929780 spring " and " 2FM04150 Cap " . The springs are the same diameter but substantially stronger.

This solved my skewing problem, don't bother with new units ( they still skew ) unless they are using stronger springs. I haven't ordered any in a while so I don't know if they are.

Cheers,,,

I used this fix today on an Alphard Gaia (KM-5500i) with 100% success. The center roller has quite beefy springs, but the outer (4) idler rollers are completely limp. The standard springs are 5.5mm diameter coils x 9mm tall uncompressed. I located in my "Miscellany O'Springs" (8) identical 5.5mm dia x 17mm tall. The 3mm paper skew is now 0.00mm paper skew!

41310

It worked on a new ECOSYS P3045DN also. I was getting a 1mm paper skew from all paper sources. This machine has only one spring 7mm dia coil x 15.5mm tall uncompressed (10mm tall fully compressed). I subbed in a 7mm diameter x 18.5mm tall spring (10mm fully compressed). My paper skew is reduced to 0.25mm across the leading edge from all sources. The heavier spring (20mm tall uncompressed) launched the idler roller shaft, making it impossible to install the rollers with that spring.

4131241311

Thanks for the great tips! =^..^=

rey
12-20-2018, 04:38 AM
:mad: Hi Folks...
Hope I can get some help/ ideas for my problem
Have a 3050ci that gives skewed output on all cassettes and bypass , most noticeable on 11 by 17. Lead edge is OK ,trailing edge and sides are off. U034 test pattern confirms skewing. The skewing is consistent. Not 100% sure ,but the image on the transfer belt seems skewed.
I have tried the following without success.
U051
Reg Roller
Holder middle pulley with modification and new springs
k-Laser unit
Entire paper conveying unit
Transfer belt.
entire laser assy.
Tried adjusting(left side of copier) laser assy without any change.
Removed, cleaned and re-seated all dv and drum units.
Adj color reg manually and auto...AND flashed firmware
At this point I have run out of things to try and the customer is PISSED....ANY help,ideas or suggestions would be much appreciated
THANKS.

try adjusting paper buckle in sim mode. dont remember what sim#

20gaugeO/U
12-27-2018, 09:45 PM
We use Springs 302F708310 which is what is holding that center roller in place and the Cap Spring 2FM04150.

4 Springs and 4 Caps per feed port at 50 cents each, fix the skew for $4 a port that you have to do. The bending in unreliable and frustrating.

Good Luck

tmaged
01-01-2019, 02:18 AM
Off the top of my head, the 3050ci feed unit doesn't have the grey feed rollers ? They use the sep roller with the built in spring (302F909171) & the frame is all plastic. I have to go back to a 3050ci that is still skewing. Blackcat's holder is the one in the bypass unit. I did repair it the last time I was there, but put the weaker springs in the rear side. I have the updated holders & shafts. Why are there different springs in the front & rear ?

blackcat4866
01-01-2019, 02:05 PM
Off the top of my head, the 3050ci feed unit doesn't have the grey feed rollers ? They use the sep roller with the built in spring (302F909171) & the frame is all plastic. I have to go back to a 3050ci that is still skewing. Blackcat's holder is the one in the bypass unit. I did repair it the last time I was there, but put the weaker springs in the rear side. I have the updated holders & shafts. Why are there different springs in the front & rear ?

Not the bypass, the pickup assy. They're called assist pulleys. See attachment from the SM, item #8 in the diagram. Have (8) springs on-hand and you'll be all set.


Why are there different springs in the front & rear ?

I don't understand the question.
Why did the manufacturer install weaker springs at the ends? I have no idea.
Why did I install longer springs? To reduce the paper skew.
=^..^=

tmaged
01-01-2019, 02:37 PM
Not the bypass, the pickup assy. They're called assist pulleys. See attachment from the SM, item #8 in the diagram. Have (8) springs on-hand and you'll be all set.
=^..^=

I guess I didn't look at your picture close enough.
I am still almost 100% positive the 3050ci, 3550ci & 3500i don't have the assist rollers in the feed units. They are only in the high speed models. The lower speed models used the plastic framed feed unit that doesn't have the extra rollers.

blackcat4866
01-01-2019, 03:13 PM
The photos you see came from a Gaia 5500i. You may be right. =^..^=

tmaged
01-01-2019, 06:34 PM
I found Bulletins B213 & D237.

blackcat4866
01-01-2019, 11:56 PM
AFAIK every machine from Alphard up uses these assist pulleys. I think it's the exact same drawing.

KM-406ci and KM-5052 do not use these assist pulleys.
=^..^=

darry1322
01-02-2019, 01:05 PM
AFAIK every machine from Alphard up uses these assist pulleys. I think it's the exact same drawing.

KM-406ci and KM-5052 do not use these assist pulleys.
=^..^=


Assist rollers and pulleys in the first PDF are only on the 45 and 55 ppm machines. Numbers 7 and 8 in the drawing have asterisks to note.

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