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TAGdesign
07-25-2008, 03:10 PM
I'm the frustrated owner of a bizhub c550. Apart from the way how the machine was forced down my throat, one of the statements Konica made was that I could print on A3+ (329x483 mm). So I get this constructor as a client, they wanted 2000 flyers, folded size a little bigger as a4 and on glossy paper 115 gr. I call my paperman and he informs me that he only has SRA3 (320x450) I tell him that's ok and order the paper. Try to put it into the machine and there is NO WAY I can feed the paper. Call Konica and they inform me that the widest what the machine can handle is 311 mm. I tell them that's not even close to A3+. I cut the paper to the proper size and still I get jam, after jam, after jam.... :mad: I'm now working almost an intire week to print 600 flyers. (The first 400 I made on friday working on it from 18.30 till 04:00 in the morning) I lost the client, I lost about 25 % of the materials on jams, not to mention the print costs, frustration, time-loss, etc. Konica is claiming that they never had such a case and that I'm the first to mention anything about the paper-size being incorrect. My salesrep is trying to be deaf, but after hassling him he said that he would make a appointment with us on monday. Now am I really the only one???? Or are they just telling me that to get rid of me? Since this is mostly an american website I'm really curious how they sell the machine over there. Do they say over there as well that it can print up to A3+? Can any of you guys help me out on this topic?

alfpanasonic
07-25-2008, 06:11 PM
It is considered paper A3+ all the papers above the A3, are the information available on various Internet sites

deep
07-25-2008, 06:58 PM
I thought you are being misleaded by others not Konica Minolta.

See the attached file about C550 Spec.

knightfall
07-25-2008, 10:29 PM
the bizhub 550 does handle A3 paper but it may be that you did not specify thick settings and glossy paper on your print driver if it only is set for normal setting it will jam all the time.

random
07-26-2008, 08:20 AM
This not a machine problem this is a salesman problem. For one the salesman has assumed A3+ is 311x450 which is a common mistake and one that a salesman would think would not matter. Two Konica has restricted the width of the machine away from SRA3 to prevent sales people selling the machine into production market which is what you are obviously in.

If this was in the enviroment it is was built for i.e an office you would not be in this situation.

So please do not knock a great machine when it has been put into an enviroment it was not designed for. Do you cut your business cards with a pair of scissors? No.

If your business is printing you need to start ATLEAST with a c500.

laserman06
07-26-2008, 12:27 PM
This not a machine problem this is a salesman problem.
If this was in the enviroment it is was built for i.e an office you would not be in this situation.

So please do not knock a great machine when it has been put into an enviroment it was not designed for. Do you cut your business cards with a pair of scissors? No.



I could not have said it better. I find selling a machine in the wrong environment is common, no matter where you are.

TAGdesign
07-26-2008, 01:56 PM
I noticed that in the specs deep posted they (Konica) arenīt as stupid to put A3+ in it, but describe the paper sizes that it can handle. It is a different spec than the one I have. Besides that, it does state quite clearly in my contract that it can handle A3+. When itīs monday Iīll run it through the scanner and post it. Furthermore, random is right about the whole story being a sales-rep problem, whom indeed didn't have a clue what they where selling me or what I am doing... The common mistake does matter in my case. Really I think that they were thinking of a quick comission and succeeded in that matter for the time being. (This being an ugly story: Somebody sold me a machine from Konica not being a machine imported through Konica, after this they gave me two days to decide wether or not I wanted this "illegal" machine changed by this "better, legal and more expensive" machine. With my back against the wall, what to do, what to do...) The machine is behaving the best it can, it does give beautiful prints and I don't like bitching about it. But it cannot life up to my expectations just because, as you said, it's not made for the envoirment that it has to work in. Indeed I don't cut businesscards with a scissor and I refuse to fold 2000 flyers by hand (although I did fold 400 by hand, just simply because I had to...)

deep
07-26-2008, 04:46 PM
This is a pain experience to you. However, as you said, it is a good machine but not up to your expectation because of your special working environment.

I suggest you should contact your sales rep again and told him about what special requirements you needed, maybe he/she can help you.

TAGdesign
07-29-2008, 07:56 PM
Pain experience is about the right words for the whole matter. Anyway today I had a good discussion with the technician. He says that in spain they consider A3+ to be 311 x457 mm. I told him that in the rest of the world they see it different.
Would people like to conform me what they consider to be A3+ ??????

Friday the sales-rep is coming. Iīll see then what he has to say for himself. Anyway Iīve got Konica Minolta spain rocking now.

deep
07-29-2008, 08:54 PM
The following link is some info. about paper size from Wikipedia:

Paper size - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_size)

TAGdesign
07-29-2008, 09:44 PM
Yeah, I know that one. You should check the same article in dutch (nederlands, not to confuse with deutsch = german). Almost the same info but it looks really cool. It's just that Konica Minolta Spain is squirming. Just in case and if neccessary, I would appreciate it if some people could confirm the size of A3+ being the international standard as is. It does help.

random
07-30-2008, 02:46 AM
Paper Size Chart (http://www.dpandi.com/paper/index.html)
Paper Sizes (http://www.specialistinks.com/paper-sizes.php)

A3+ doesn't appear to be an ISO size so it's not something that you can put in someones face. Sounds like North America consider A3+ and SRA3 to be the same size. Some places consider A3+ to 311x450 and SRA3 320x450. Sounds like your dealer is swaying that way.

B0265
07-30-2008, 08:02 AM
I have attached a product sheet from a Nordic producer, Stora Enso. They define A3+ as 457x305 mm.

TAGdesign
07-30-2008, 02:05 PM
I wrote an email to the international organization for standardization (short: ISO;)) if they can shine a light on the subject. Iīm waiting for reply.
But when I understand this right the only thing that is left is not defining the print size, but putting it down as A3+, which can be interpreted as any width in between 298 and 340 mm...

iMind
07-30-2008, 02:23 PM
I wrote an email to the international organization for standardization (short: ISO;)) if they can shine a light on the subject. I´m waiting for reply.
But when I understand this right the only thing that is left is not defining the print size, but putting it down as A3+, which can be interpreted as any width in between 298 and 340 mm...You should format your cassette to 11X17 : tabloid 432mm X 279mm. there is no A3+ in the iso standard.
check this:
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_A4#Tabla_de_formatos_.28ISO.2FDIN.29

TAGdesign
07-31-2008, 05:54 PM
So my sales rep cannot proof that a3+ is indeed 311 width, but he is indeed swaying that way. He was trying to convince me of that, I think he doesnīt want to come tomorrow. I told him we have a date and it stands. As promised before, the spec that I got before I bought the machine (monday has a long breath this week). If the discussion about the papersize indeed lays open, their spec as well lays open for discussion. If it is indeed a matter of what you are brought up with, my opinion is that you then should define a size and not just call it an elephant because everybody does, when it is really an amorph floating thingy.

deep
07-31-2008, 07:17 PM
In the brochure, it specified that A3+ paper could be used but in the user manual it doesn't.
So there is a contradiction in between.

Check the user manual from Konica Minolta (Spain) Site below:
http://download6.konicaminolta.eu/konmin/servlet/KonMinMaster?path=../search.jsp&mode=show&document=24530

TAGdesign
07-31-2008, 07:34 PM
the link doesnīt work....

deep
07-31-2008, 08:20 PM
the link doesnīt work....

It's works, please try again.

You may try this one:
Online Services - Search (http://download6.konicaminolta.eu/konmin/public/2113111C0D5E241D0049200E4E3E1C021B051A06062304113C 116D0F3D06220A065425203B06445811657C1E5C540F442E00 4E191F5444690A0617090642562C5B157D4717000253371206 1A0C6D2C0F1B071E430B5373430215190E5A0A4D2E58424816 4936524E17104243753C17154123081D141505491E104E1D45 481443320D4E52031F5F555407060653)

TAGdesign
07-31-2008, 09:03 PM
At the office I had errors occuring. At home the link works fine. Thanks anyway. Now I have the manual in more understandable languages. That helps a lot!!! Now the first line I see about papersizes is:

El papel debe tener un ancho de entre 182 mm y 314 mm. (box 5-9)

Now explain that when 311 is the maximum width and yes, I will admit, now I am milimeter-fucking. (It's a good change for the normal pixel-fucking:D.)

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