~ Dedicated 20amp or converter? ~

[SlipperyCat]

I can buy an adapter for $13 to convert a 15amp outlet into a 20amp. Some Konica machines require a 20amp outlet of course. Why can't an adapter be used? Doesn't most businesses use 20amp in the building behind the scenes and only the outlets are 15amp?

[copier addict]

I can buy an adapter for $13 to convert a 15amp outlet into a 20amp. Some Konica machines require a 20amp outlet of course. Why can't an adapter be used? Doesn't most businesses use 20amp in the building behind the scenes and only the outlets are 15amp?

The issue is that the wire between the breaker panel and the outlet is only rated for 15 amps. You are opening yourself up to a lot of liability if you just install an adapter. Not worth it in my opinion

[emujo2]

The 20 amp plug is there for a reason... Why bother spending $$ for a converter, just grab a pair of plyers and turn that pesky prong 90 degrees. This is the same thing as a "converter".I would also recommend you add a vending machine, coffee pot and space heater on the same outlet, and be sure the ground wire is attached to the plumbing pipes..Emujo

[SlipperyCat]

OK! Thanks! :)

If those adapters were an actual solution I'd be a rich man because sales reps never bother to check power. Have a box in my car and sell them for $50 a pop when they look like idiots in front of their clients. Easy cash! :)

[Phil B.]

do not follow emoju2 advise .. those plugs are designed for that reason.. so a 20amp machine cannot hookup to a 15 amp line..

like copier addict said ... have the customer install a 20amp breaker...

running that machine on an "adapter" will draw too much on the line.. could damage the 15amp breaker and start a fire.

why do $15/hr technicians ( or technicants in some cases ) think they know better than a $100k a year electrical engineer? :mad:

[blackcat4866]

do not follow emoju2 advise .. those plugs are designed for that reason.. so a 20amp machine cannot hookup to a 15 amp line..

like copier addict said ... have the customer install a 20amp breaker...

running that machine on an "adapter" will draw too much on the line.. could damage the 15amp breaker and start a fire.

why do $15/hr technicians ( or technicants in some cases ) think they know better than a $100k a year electrical engineer? :mad:

I suppose you did not recognize the ironic tone to emujo's post? He is not encouraging this stupidity. =^..^=

[emujo2]

I suppose you did not recognize the ironic tone to emujo's post? He is not encouraging this stupidity. =^..^=

Thank you..must have lost something in the translation..E

[Vincent128]

I suppose it's up to you if you want to take on odd and possibly expensive electrical problems on the copier.

Be responsible for if the building burns down and the insurance company will not pay out because you have violated fire codes.

[allan]

You could stick a 15A breaker in the back of the machine to check if it will break.
If it does break you have a problem if it does not and run on the 15A breaker you should be ok.
Then leave it in there.

The production machine does have a built in breaker.
Not sure about the rating.

Then again the machine was designed and tested by knowledgeable people and the ratings is the ratings.

[emujo2]

When I was doing installs, we had this thing called a site survey. Sales was required to go onsite and verify the electrical would support the devices going in. If this was signed by the customer, the MFP was delivered. If I arrived on site and the outlet was incorrect, then I would refuse the install and say "please call back when you have this corrected". When I came back I only checked for the existence of the correct NEMA outlet, I didn't inspect breakers and wiring. If the customer just took the shortcut and didn't upgrade the wiring and breaker from the plug back to the panel it wasn't my problem. If a call was placed for a dead MFP and the breaker was tripped, then I would require a electricians work order showing the necessary changes had been made and I would unplug the device and depart. This was a very rare problem, most of the KM office equipment that had NEMA 20 plugs were only like this because they had enough accessories that, if all of them were running, (saddle, PI, folder) they could draw over 15 amps. I am still more concerned over grounding issues than 15 gauge/20 gauge wiring. And, for the original poster, when you say converter, do you mean an actual electrical appliance that converts 15 amp to 20 amp service, or do you mean a pigtail that merely routs the 3 wire nema 20 to a nema 15. I only post this because I am 100% sure that we have a lot of 20 amp MFPs plugged into what looks like a nema 20 amp outlet but only the outlet was changed. You are probably not going to have to deal with any building fires. Emujo

[blackcat4866]

Site Survey? I would have had to break arms to get our sales staff to even turn in a blank site survey. Perhaps 1 in 10 installs had a survey in the packet, probably half of those had any data at all on them. Most said: install drivers on computers

How many? What kind? OS? Scanning? Email credentials? Why provide those things?
=^..^=

[Phil B.]

I suppose you did not recognize the ironic tone to emujo's post? He is not encouraging this stupidity. =^..^=

it is not HE MEANT IT... but how the other person TOOK it! I had techs under me that would do just that " take pliers and twist the leg around"

[Mr Spock]

When I was doing installs, we had this thing called a site survey. Sales was required to go onsite and verify the electrical would support the devices going in. If this was signed by the customer, the MFP was delivered. If I arrived on site and the outlet was incorrect, then I would refuse the install and say "please call back when you have this corrected". When I came back I only checked for the existence of the correct NEMA outlet, I didn't inspect breakers and wiring. If the customer just took the shortcut and didn't upgrade the wiring and breaker from the plug back to the panel it wasn't my problem. If a call was placed for a dead MFP and the breaker was tripped, then I would require a electricians work order showing the necessary changes had been made and I would unplug the device and depart. This was a very rare problem, most of the KM office equipment that had NEMA 20 plugs were only like this because they had enough accessories that, if all of them were running, (saddle, PI, folder) they could draw over 15 amps. I am still more concerned over grounding issues than 15 gauge/20 gauge wiring. And, for the original poster, when you say converter, do you mean an actual electrical appliance that converts 15 amp to 20 amp service, or do you mean a pigtail that merely routs the 3 wire nema 20 to a nema 15. I only post this because I am 100% sure that we have a lot of 20 amp MFPs plugged into what looks like a nema 20 amp outlet but only the outlet was changed. You are probably not going to have to deal with any building fires. Emujo

I almost never saw a site survey that the sales rep did not do themselves from the comfort of the sales office while watching youtube.....
I did get one sales manager to refuse to put an order through without one. Made for some sales reps missing quotas and bonus's for the month...
And some of the 20 amp Konica's were right at 17 amps when all accessories were running (if I remember correctly). But not all machines had all the accessories on them so lower amps.

[allan]

Earthing the reason the ADU board got toasted.

[Phil B.]

I almost never saw a site survey that the sales rep did not do themselves from the comfort of the sales office while watching youtube.....
I did get one sales manager to refuse to put an order through without one. Made for some sales reps missing quotas and bonus's for the month...
And some of the 20 amp Konica's were right at 17 amps when all accessories were running (if I remember correctly). But not all machines had all the accessories on them so lower amps.

Much like emoju.. when I came to work for my present company I updated a site survey I had used in the decades past. I gave it to the owner and the sales person ( his sis-in-law) both refused to use it.
The first time I had a problem, I called the boss (his sale) " you didn't even do a site survey did you" "nope"
well they want to run the machine on a drop cord... I will not hook it up this way..call the customer and have them run a circuit to the spot.

they STILL don't do a site survey and I have declined 10 installs now due to it. sore subject

[allan]

This company i am am at expects the tech to do the survey the day he shows up for the install!!
System from years ago is just followed without questioning it. Half of the paperwork is unnecessary and wrong.

[Vincent128]

We insist on a site survey and I have put together a pretty good one.

While it's up to the sales team to at least mention the thing, when the equipment hits our dock to be setup a technician is assigned to do whatever is necessary to work out things before we deliver.

..Horror stories of a salesman selling 4 Konica 7085's and the service team being told to put them back on the truck and never come back during the install because nobody mentioned to the customer they needed Nema6 220 volt...

[Phil B.]

This company i am am at expects the tech to do the survey the day he shows up for the install!!
System from years ago is just followed without questioning it. Half of the paperwork is unnecessary and wrong.

and I guess they also expect you to close the barn door after the livestock is 5 miles down the road :cool:

[Phil B.]

We insist on a site survey and I have put together a pretty good one.

While it's up to the sales team to at least mention the thing, when the equipment hits our dock to be setup a technician is assigned to do whatever is necessary to work out things before we deliver.

..Horror stories of a salesman selling 4 Konica 7085's and the service team being told to put them back on the truck and never come back during the install because nobody mentioned to the customer they needed Nema6 220 volt...

and of course the service/install group was to blame for that also.... frigging salesmen.. can't work with them and can't shoot them ( or at least leave the dead bodies in plain sight!) :o

[SlipperyCat]

...pigtail that merely routs the 3 wire nema 20 to a nema 15. I only post this because I am 100% sure that we have a lot of 20 amp MFPs plugged into what looks like a nema 20 amp outlet but only the outlet was changed. You are probably not going to have to deal with any building fires. Emujo

Yes, pigtail adapter, nothing really built in to change the electrical capacity. Kinda like you mentioned about twisting the prong, same thing.

Like I said, back in the day I could have had a nice side income selling adapters with the way our company did things as the reps choked on their coffee when they realized they couldn't plug in the machine. It happened at least once a week. Fun times. I would just shake my head and laugh on the inside. Would the cheap adapters cause fires? Who knows, but I'm sure to get the sale the reps could care less at the time. There were plenty of lost sales due to the lack of homework by the reps. Serves them right. Ya gotta learn the hard way sometimes!

Site Surveys have gotten better, but they are only as good as the person filling out the information. Leave that part to a customer, or a sales rep and they are pretty much another useless document you can't trust.