How to identify my Bizhub C203 problem?

[AVW]

Hi Forum,

I got a strange problem with my Bizhub C203. Some days ago it started with an incredible loud clicking noise. That noise started from one moment to the other while it was printing, and is now permanently as soon as I switch on the machine. We didn´t change anything at the machine previously. The last thing was the fuser 4 weeks ago. It sounds like some broken gear-wheel or similar near the ozone filter on the back right. But thats hard to tell as I just can hear from the outside, and it may be somewhere else. Perhaps near the fusing, or the image transfere roller, or anything else, ...
But as the machine still works well, I don´t know how to identify my problem. Of course the machine stops as soon as I open any door, and so I cannot follow and see where the cklicking noise comes from.

Any ideas for me, what to do now? Where to start? All the gear wheels that I can see look fine. But the noise is extreme and I fear that I seriously damage the copier when I "play around" more time and let it run another 10 minutes.

[blackcat4866]

There are three things that can experience drive failure and not show an immediate effect:

1) toner add
2) developing agitation
3) waste toner system

if it sounds like it's coming from the back it's probably the waste toner system. Wow! You have a treat in your future! =^..^=

[emujo2]

This series was bad for hardened toner clogging the supply tubes in the back, it could also be the transfer belt waste augers or related parts. Either way, this is not a task the average end user wants to tackle. This is hours of tear down, cleaning and re assembly. I would recommend having a Konica Minolta dealer quote a price for the repair, and then, if this is what the problem is, replace the MFP. Emujo

[AVW]

Hey thanks for that quick answers. Well the waste toner system is a good hint. The wast toner box was replaced the same day. I didn´t think about it as It is at the other side of the machine ;) Well, the service manual was not really helpful about the waste toner system. Perhaps you can tall me more?
And are the "supply tubes in the back" connected to the waste toner system? If it is the waste toner system, where does this ugly loud klicking noise come from? Can I turn on the machine again without finally damaging it?

Sadly we got no money for any real technician, as we drive our machines privately an non commercial. So I have to do it with the service manual and your help. ;)

[allan]

Record the sound to make sure we are going down the correct rabbit hole.
If its the waste toner transport you are going to be thrown into the deep end.

Very fixable there is just a 1000 bits and pieces you need to remove to get to the problem it takes almost an entire day to do.
So i really hope for your part its not that.

[copier tech]

Each time i've had this clicking caused by toner clogging in the waste pips etc I write the machine off, it is simply not worth the time & effort to repair such an old machine.

Now the weather has got hotter (UK) this problem starts appearing!

Nightmare job!

[habik]

Few cans of beer, good music and no one interrupting you you'll be done in 4-6 hrs. All depends on your photo-memory in your brain. :)

Good luck and hope it is not the same as in the video below. The sound was very ratchet like type. Nylon gears skipping on drive mechanism, until one of them gives up and then once 2-3 teeth are out it will skip on any occasion it can when higher torque is required. There is 2 of the same gears to it. part nr. 4004254501 - GEAR 18/30T.
One on the drive train side and one on the waste auger drive end. They both are locking in 90 degree angle. The first job was a nightmare... then I actually enjoyed it as it was fun.. :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeTjSW-Styk&t=24s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9FNwmMhxZ4

3673936740

[copyman]

Before jumping the gun with noise coming from the waste toner system I would pull out the transfer belt (2 screws) and check the cleaning unit on there. Since you said you recently replaced the fuser maybe a piece of the orange rubber is preventing the trans belt cleaning unit from turning. This is assuming you replaced the fuser because the orange rubber roller broke apart?

By the way I have seen this happen many times. Almost every Biz 203/253 the orange rollers are breaking apart. I still have around 20-30 of these in service.

Shame but this series has reached "end of life" status with Konica Minolta. No longer supported and when parts are gone they are gone.

[AVW]

copyman, you have been right. We exchanged the fuser, because of one of the rubber rolls breaking in pices! ;) I put out the transfer belt this evening, and really there have been 2 small pices of that rubber around. But not more, and cleaning didn´t change the situation. But, the whole belt was full of yellow toner. So I had a look at the yellow drum and it is also full of yellow toner. So I suspect that I really got a wast toner system problem.

habik, you are incredible - as always! ;) But as I know you, when you do it in 6 hours, I will need about 4-5 days. But ok, it is doable at least! Thanks as well for the right pages of the parts manual.

copier tech, of course you are right for "commercial" usage of a printer, Even if habik would try to rescue the machine, it is questionable if it is worth the "investment" of time and power. But on the other hand, we got time, but no money, so I will give it a try in any case. Trashing a whole machine, because cleaning a part deep inside takes long to access the part, is ugly by the way. Well it is how our world works, but I like to care about machines and ressources. Call me a hippie ;)

allan, here is the audio. It is an .amr file from my mobile, bad quality, but you will hear it well enough! :-)


36776

[Synthohol]

that is gears stripping to me.
check all the drive components and the fuser gears. especially the little ones on the main body.
will it stop if you open the trays?
i mean, that just sounds like gears not engaging to me. just try to pinpoint the sound to a specific area.

[AVW]

Well, the sound does not stop, when I put out any tray. I belive (but I am not sure), that the sound comes near from the gears of the fusing unit.

I hope it is the fuser, but I need your help. Remember, the sound appeared first, while printing, and pringing still worked well, even if the sound is there.

I put out the fuser right now, and tried to check the gears. As I have no experiance with them, here is a picture that you can see for yourselve:

36786

The gear wheels work well. Only the huge black one cannot be moved, because of that half gear inside. If I move it by hand, and use enough force so that it "moves over" the teeths of that half gear wheel inside, the sound is similar to what I hear when the machine is on and the fuser is installed.

But I do not understand the mechanism. What is the huge black gear from the fusing units right side for? And especially what does that "half gear wheel" inside?

36787


And finally here is a picture from the gears for the fusing unit from inside the copier. I cannot tell if they look like they should? Regarding the two brown ones, the one in the front can be moved by hand, the other one in the back not at all. Both have a kind of lubricating grease on them.


36788

Is there perhaps a possibility to turn the copier on completely to see if the sound is gone without the fusing unit installed? So I could see if my theory is right an if it really is the fusing unit, or the waste toner system or something else. Or is it impossible to trick out the sensors?

[Synthohol]

the half moon gear is to engage the pressure between the 2 rollers, it does not turn all the way.
one other thing, with the fuser back in, while it makes the noise push the side door in tighter to see if it stops the noise.

[blackcat4866]

I have a suggestion.

If all the other choices just seem too hard, just pick something randomly that you know how to do, and say that is the problem. Go ahead and ignore the advice of the other people that suggested HARD things. I know many technicians that use this methodology. You never actually fix the problem, but then you never have to admit that you don't understand the advice. =^..^=

[AVW]

one other thing, with the fuser back in, while it makes the noise push the side door in tighter to see if it stops the noise.
That was the first thing we tried, before I did the first posting here. It does not stop the noise.

[copyman]

Can't say I blame you for trying everything possible before having to deal with the waste toner pipe clog. Have you tried running machine with rear cage "hanging" away from machine. You can unhook the cage and that should give you enough room to look with flashlight to see if you see any gears jumping. Or at least pinpoint the area where noise is coming from. If I'm not mistaken the noise for waste toner clog is on right side (standing in back of machine) and all the drive stuff is toward the left.

Fortunately I have never had do that repair. Heard about it a being the worst type of repair on that series. I thought the Transfer belt sensor & laser unit were tough repairs, but heard this was much worse!

I had around 100 in the field at one time and never had one machine with the clogged waste pipe. Probably just jinxed myself but I only have around 20 left. If it does happen I won't attempt the repair. Now that they are "end of life" status I will just upgrade the machine.

best of luck

[allan]

Could be the main drive?

Fun thing is this machine makes it easy to run / stabilize with the side door open.

[habik]

Hi hope you are well.

If the machine is doing it on occasion or lightly..then you maybe still in luck (temporarily until the gears give away completely) and the lumps of toner can be sucked out from the auger from top of the machine when the left hand side cover and the top tray are removed. You will need a mirror, flashlight and vacuume cleaner with narrow nozzle to put it inside the toner delivery augers top cups. Inside it is a spring to agitate the toner so it doesn't create lumps( well its a ot easier to give the cartridge a prolong shaking to keep the toner in dust form. anyway:

Open the front door an dremove all toners and Imaging Units and Waste box. Open right hand side door and remove the transfer belt (two screws securing the silver locking plates). Now try and turn the drive gear with hand towards you. If you start getting that noise then ask someone to turn the belt drive gear whilst you start vacuming the waste pipe. (Pain to get to all holes Item 9 x4 and the waste port for the waste box item 18 x1 on the parts catalog page) If you think you cleaned it then clean the toner hoppers as well.

Shine the light from the the top of where the the toners are and in line of your sight and angle it with mirror to see whats happening whilst you vacuuming the toner hopper . Now you'll need someone to keep turning that drive of Transfer belt as all that is driven by the same drive mechanism. Keep doing it unit you don't hear that skipping of the gears.

Now I don't recall if the drive ubnit was OUT of the machine whilst I was turning the Transfer Belt or not..Sorry..I just really don't remember. Try it. You'll notice how difficult it is. I was able to turn it by hand.

Let us know if you can turn it by hand. Good luck.

Kind Regards,

[AVW]

you maybe still in luck (temporarily until the gears give away completely) and the lumps of toner can be sucked out from the auger from top of the machine when the left hand side cover and the top tray are removed. You will need a mirror, flashlight and vacuume cleaner with narrow nozzle to put it inside the toner delivery augers top cups. Inside it is a spring to agitate the toner so it doesn't create lumps( well its a ot easier to give the cartridge a prolong shaking to keep the toner in dust form. anyway:

Hi habik!

Two weeks ago we had all suggested parts together (nozzele, mirror, ...) and for the first time enough time to care about our 203.
We followed your advice, and vacuumed the augers from above (and the wastte toner system). As we could not move the transfer gear more than one round we gave up at that point. Last week we started to take apart the machine, and tried vacuuming everything again.
At the moment the PWB box, HV unit and Transport Motor are out.

The interresting part is, that all augers are empty and look very clean now. The spring inside the augers is working well at all colours! I cannot move the gear system by hand as it would need too much force. So I moved the Transport Motor by hand. I can always move it for about 20 rounds (about 1 round at the transfer belt gear), before the noise starts and the gears are overrunning. The sound comes definitely from somewhere behind or "inside" the Transport Drive Unit.
All (!) the gears at the right side (when I look at the back of the machine), means waste toner gears, auger system gears, are not moving when the overrunning and the sound happens after about 20 rounds of the Transport Motor (while they move well in both directions, for that 20 rounds of the motor). That means that the overrunning does not happen there.
So when I move the Transport Motor back, for again 20 rounds, the augers do not move. But the overrunning happens in the other direction as well then. Moving the motor again the augers move again, in the right direction (what makes sense to me as we do not like to transport toner back into the toner box *g*). We did it for sure 60 times, that means the augers seem to be really empty.

My next step will be to take out the transport drive unit and have a closer look. If I need to get out the augers completely one day, the transport drive unit needs to go out as well anyways ;)

For others who may wonder again (or recognize that I am partially using wrong terms or do not get everything immediatly), I am not a technician. We are driving a non commercial place for printing in our city, in our spare time, so I am more the "interrested end user". And as we do not have money (but time), we need to try our best to fix the machines on our own.