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AVW
11-25-2017, 01:41 PM
I like to refresh the transfer belt of my C450 as there are some ugly scratches and cleaning with IPA doesn't help in this case.

Could somebody explain me what to do exactly, as I do not understand the service manual completely. Of course I got no "Safety Switch Holding Jig" :-( But I also do not know what "turn ON the Left Door Switch" means exaclty and "wait to finish predrive" like I am adviced from the copier in the "Transfer Belt Refresh mode" of the service mode.

Am I right that the jig is just for switching on and keeping the switch inside in this position? Trying to use something selfmade jig similar to that jig picture at page 35 (4.1 CE tool list) of the field service manual doesn't work so far. The switch sounds like it is switched on simply when I put my "selfmade jig" inside. Or do I need to turn it around and switch something else on? Anyways nothing is happening. There is no "predrive" happening (whatever that means) and the Start button stays orange and does not get green, ...

So could you please tell me how exactly that switch works, and what I need to do to switch it on.
Subsequently the belt should move, and when it is finished, I should be able to move the Refresh Pad up against the Transfer Belt just by loosening that one screw, right?

Thanks!

Woxner
11-25-2017, 09:03 PM
you cant polish the streaks out on the belt. best you can do is clean it if it has something on it. its surface is too thin to buff. so you will need to relace it.

AVW
11-26-2017, 10:34 AM
Of course I have to replace the transfer belt. ;) But in the meantime Iīd like to see if "refreshing" changes anything. Also Iīd like to become able to do that refreshing for future issues.

copyman
11-26-2017, 12:33 PM
I don't blame you trying to keep the belt you have, they are very expensive. Unfortunately no way to refresh. Like wox said you can clean residue, etc with alcohol, which you did. So only thing left is replace transfer belt. Maybe get it for less $ on ebay. Good luck

AVW
11-26-2017, 12:50 PM
OK guys, thats not very helpful. I try to understand how to exactly "refresh" the belt, and you tell me just it doesnīt make sense and will not work. You may be right, and I know I have to get a new belt soon (what nevertheless needs 2 to 3 weeks to order it, without service contract), but the option for "refreshing the belt" is described in the manual so it should do anything. I would at least like to try it, and like to understand how that switch works. So please tell me how to do it, and not that it makes no sense ;)

copyman
11-26-2017, 01:42 PM
Don't think you are going to get the answer you are looking for here, because there are NO answers for a bad transfer belt! You have received good advice. The belt has to be replaced!

Attached is procedure to refresh belt. never worked for me.

AVW
11-26-2017, 02:32 PM
Thanks Copyman for the pages from the service manual. Of course I had them before, and I tried a lot to follow these pages. As I said in my initial posting I do not understand how the switch should work, but I would like to. And I am sorry, but no, it is not a good advice. I did not ask "what to do with my belt", I asked "how should the described refreshing work". So it is simply not an answer to my question. Perhaps it is as english is (obviously) not my first language, ... but I really would like to understand the described procedure, even if it doesnīt improve the situation of my belt. ;)

AjitN
11-26-2017, 02:46 PM
Every body is absolutely right.
In KM machines you cannot bring the bad ITB to acceptable working condition by cleaning with IPA or other things. If the belt is polished with some cleaning solution, it does not help at all . on the contrary it prominently lifts up defects .Its so thin OR made accordingly it just needed to replaced ( most in other brands say Xerox it can be cleaned or polished with some cleaning solutions helps, but not in case of KM.) Its too bad. Refreshing is only charging Belt xerographically, but not to remove defects
Just replace there is no other better solution.
Hope this helps

copyman
11-27-2017, 06:10 PM
You have received good advice here sorry it wasn't what you wanted to hear. Time to replace the belt. No way around it. Case closed!

Best of luck.

AVW
11-28-2017, 08:04 AM
No, nothing is closed. You simply didnīt answer my questions. You adviced me to replace the belt, and as I told several times, I expect that you are right. I know that I need to replace the belt. Nevertheless, I like to understand the service manual, and aked about the switch and the sentences that I do not understand, not about any advice if I shall replace my belt or hope that the refreshing makes sense at all. Even if it will not do anything to my belt I like to understand the manual and be able to do that "refreshing".

I still like to understand the switch and how it workes. So if anybody can tell me how to proceed such a ITB refreshing (with more details than in the service manual), especially how that switch works and what that "predrive" should be, please do so.

AjitN
11-28-2017, 01:00 PM
AVW
I think I have answered the question.
Refreshing ITB is only to refresh OR recovered Belt from light shock.
I mean if belt is exposed to light OR open environment which decreases charging power of belt(similar to drum if exposed to light for long time)
Refreshing is charging the belt to possible normal condition without printing hundreds of copies/prints &
This will not recovered from any defects on the belt.
If you are technical person you will understand what I am trying to tell you.

AjitN
11-28-2017, 02:16 PM
No, nothing is closed. You simply didnīt answer my questions. You adviced me to replace the belt, and as I told several times, I expect that you are right. I know that I need to replace the belt. Nevertheless, I like to understand the service manual, and aked about the switch and the sentences that I do not understand, not about any advice if I shall replace my belt or hope that the refreshing makes sense at all. Even if it will not do anything to my belt I like to understand the manual and be able to do that "refreshing".

I still like to understand the switch and how it workes. So if anybody can tell me how to proceed such a ITB refreshing (with more details than in the service manual), especially how that switch works and what that "predrive" should be, please do so.

I think I have answered you.
Refreshing Belt is nothing but charging Belt Xerographically only. Charging belt is like if drum is exposed to light for long time, OR polished/ cleaned with some solution drum surface looses to hold charge, which may take few hundred copies/prints to regain capability of charging. IT WILL NOT ELIMINATE ANY DEFECTS ON SURFACE OF BELT.
Being a technical person I am sure you will understand what I am & all others are trying to tell you.
HOPE THIS IS CLOSED NOW.

AVW
11-28-2017, 06:31 PM
Sorry, but you really should start reading what I am writing. I am not asking about my belt, I am asking about how that switch should work if I donīt have that Jig.

Phil B.
11-28-2017, 09:15 PM
So if anybody can tell me how to proceed such a ITB refreshing (with more details than in the service manual), .

there is NO WAY TO REFRESH a BELT.... REPLACE IT.

switch you will have to reread the manual.

AVW
11-28-2017, 09:35 PM
OK, if there is anybody out there who can explain how to use that switch without the jig, and what "predrive" exactly means please go ahead. I really would like to talk with somebody who is not interrested in advising me again and again things that I 1st didnīt ask for and 2nd never questioned.

Phil B.
11-28-2017, 09:46 PM
Being a technical person I am sure you will understand what I am & all others are trying to tell you.
HOPE THIS IS CLOSED NOW.

I am wondering if that is the case. We DO get a lot of end users on this site.

copyman
11-28-2017, 10:37 PM
Is this for real? This person actually thinks they are going to get help "demanding" we answer the question, on a 20 yr old machine! You wore my patience down! I tried to help.

Listen dude if you are that stupid not knowing that the "special tool / jig" mentioned in the service manual is a jumper for the interlock switch then you need to look into another profession (if you really are a tech). You can fold up a piece of paper and use it in place of that "special jig"!

NOW CASE CLOSED, short of asking admin to delete this thread!

AVW
11-29-2017, 01:51 PM
OK guy now you are becoming personal, ... fine. One of the classical persons not reading anything as it seems. If you would have ever carefully read my initial posting, you would have recognized, that I am referring to exact pages in the service manual. Your "help" was to post the page about belt refreshing that I was referring to, ...
Now you are calling me stupid, and do as if "old machines" are something bad. BTW the C450 was introduced by Konica Minolta in April 2005, not 20 years ago. It seems you are one of the technicians who preferre to talk customers into new leasing contracts than doing a good job. So please if you do not have to say anything stop talking and highjacking this thread with completely different statements than what I was asking.

For the rest of you, and I know this forum the last 2 years as very respectful and frindly, I still want to understand the procedure, and would like to understand the switch and "predrive". Of course the new belt is ordered already. ;)

907tec
11-29-2017, 08:33 PM
Are you trolling us? You are obsessing over understanding the inner-workings of a process that is not even relevant to your situation. The question you are repeatedly asking is so base that it flies under the radar of most technicians: are you really asking how a microswitch/reed switch functions? I mean...it's a switch. Just press the damn button. The switch is almost always just a tiny strip of springy-metal that actuates a tiny button when pressed. That's it. 99% of techs have never laid hands on an "interlock jig", because all you have to do is cram a wad of paper in there. Or a screwdriver. Or a finger.

I honestly can't tell if you are trolling. If you are truly this intrigued by the nuances of your machine, you should read the Theory manual. It's...uh...a real thrill.

cycle66
11-30-2017, 04:28 AM
To answer the question... open the left door and notice the actuator arm that is standing up on the door, this is what closes the safety switch when the door is closed. Press the safety switch with what ever fits in the small space so it closes the switch, predrive I believe is just the machine booting up after you close the safety switch ( it's called safety for a reason) once the machine stops running loosen the screw up that is pointed to in the manual, this will allow the belt refresh pad to be able to be used. The pad is spring loaded and will contact the belt, you can press the plastic housing on either side of the screw you loosened up in order to put more pressure on the pad for cleaning purposes. Press the start key and hold pressure on the pad until it stops. Remember to tighten the screw fully when finished since this retracks the cleaning pad, remove your safety switch cheater (wad of paper or what ever you used to actuate the safety switch) then close the left door and exit out of service mode.

Phil B.
11-30-2017, 08:43 PM
NOW CASE CLOSED, short of asking admin to delete this thread!

THAT would be a GREAT IDEA!

AVW
11-30-2017, 10:35 PM
To answer the question... open the left door and notice the actuator arm that is standing up on the door, this is what closes the safety switch when the door is closed. Thanks that was one interresting information, that I indeed didnīt get previously.



Press the safety switch with what ever fits in the small space so it closes the switch, predrive I believe is just the machine booting up after you close the safety switch ( it's called safety for a reason) once the machine stops running And that is the main issue. Of coures I tried the switch several times (with screwdriver, some paper, and even a "self made jig" looking similar to those from the service manual made of hard rubber) and tried many things before I wrote my initial posting. But when I press the switch just backwards, what feels like if a button inside is pressed, nothing is happening at all. Thats why I asked how the switch should work, what may have sounded dumb, but I thought perhaps (as you have to turn the jig if you have one) there is some other button anywhere inside that gets pressed at turning the jig.
So the main issue is still that there is nothing happening if I press the switch. No "predrive" in any form, and the Start button stays orange an is not getting green, whatever I try.



loosen the screw up that is pointed to in the manual, this will allow the belt refresh pad to be able to be used. The pad is spring loaded and will contact the belt, you can press the plastic housing on either side of the screw you loosened up in order to put more pressure on the pad for cleaning purposes. Press the start key and hold pressure on the pad until it stops. Remember to tighten the screw fully when finished since this retracks the cleaning pad, remove your safety switch cheater (wad of paper or what ever you used to actuate the safety switch) then close the left door and exit out of service mode.
Thanks for explaining the pad and the possibility for more pressure. I will give it another try tomorrow with both belts.

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