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Konicatech
02-16-2018, 08:51 PM
Hi,

Have got a bizhub c454, that has started to leave a background image on prints

for example, I print the demo page, and then if i print something else it will have the demo page sqaures in the background - see image attached - sorry for the quality.

The machine has about 500,000 clicks, and drums are all new, colour devs have 45% left, black dev has 90%, all other parts are well within life.

Tried stabilization, rotating the drums, but no difference

Any one seen this before?38896

mo0651
02-16-2018, 08:56 PM
We have had bad dev units. replace drum and dev unit at same time.

habik
02-16-2018, 09:01 PM
Check fuser. IT should have remaining image on upper fuser roller.



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Konicatech
02-16-2018, 09:04 PM
Check fuser. IT should have remaining image on upper fuser roller.



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Have tried another fuser and still the same

habik
02-16-2018, 09:08 PM
Have the belt been replaced? If it has have you run Initialise+Image Background Reset?

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Konicatech
02-16-2018, 09:42 PM
Have the belt been replaced? If it has have you run Initialise+Image Background Reset?

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The belt was swapped for testing purposes but there was no difference, if you mean Initialise & image stabilization then yes these were run

habik
02-16-2018, 10:14 PM
Does it offset as well when you do PS or PCL print outs?? Just to eliminate CMY units.

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Konicatech
02-16-2018, 10:22 PM
Does it offset as well when you do PS or PCL print outs?? Just to eliminate CMY units.

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Good question! I have not tried this, but will! - When i do gradiations for CMY, there is like a dusting of all colours over the test prints (not just a specific colour) for example, magenta has a dusting of yellow,cyan

Synthohol
02-17-2018, 12:06 AM
OEM toner or dirt in a bottle?

i dont think your transfer belt is getting cleaned by the blade. run some solid test patternsand pull the belt and rotate by hand to see if the cleaning blade is doing its job.

habik
02-17-2018, 12:30 AM
OEM toner or dirt in a bottle?

i dont think your transfer belt is getting cleaned by the blade. run some solid test patternsand pull the belt and rotate by hand to see if the cleaning blade is doing its job.Think belt and fuser has been tested from other machine as per posts above.


I just hope test prints are done on 80gsm.

Maybe running a lot of halftones and get newer toner through the Devs.

But first I'd go with K (1 PC) only to narrow it down and eliminate TX and F. Once it's doing on K only I'd go for half stop there and see where the culprit occurred.


Just out of curiosity is your background on some whacky numbers like -5 or such other than 0? TCR levels OK? Anything unusual on Table Vdc or Vg?

Also reseating all boards connections and specially DIMMs can occasionally help.




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blackcat4866
02-17-2018, 02:52 AM
Something isn't cleaning properly, that's for sure. Either primary transfer or fuser. The drum is too small to make that interval. Are you using OEM parts? OEM toner? Plain paper with appropriate media type settings? =^..^=

wjurls
02-17-2018, 05:57 AM
Looks like transfer belt cleaning to me. Make sure the elbow that runs the waste toner from the belt to the waste tank isn't blocked. Also as mentioned above, media settings on KM color machines is absolutely paramount!!

Lee

JR2ALTA
02-17-2018, 06:12 AM
How is it not fuser/ fusing issue? All colors ghosting? That's day one troubleshooting.
Transfer not cleaning results in streaks or, at best, long distant shadowing

wjurls
02-17-2018, 07:03 AM
He had said he tried a different fuser. Also image from previous page ghosts onto next. just about the distance of the transfer belt. Poor transfer cleaning can also repeat all colors.

wjurls
02-17-2018, 07:05 AM
I've had a C454 do this very thing and the tube leading from the belt cleaner to the waste tank was clogged.

3ktlc
02-20-2018, 03:03 PM
I would say it deals with the transfer assembly.

AjitN
02-20-2018, 04:41 PM
How About toner?
Why We can't think about toner, There could be a spurious toner even if cartridge looks exactly same.
Offsetting could be due to toner not fusing properly, we have seen this in across many brands & models.

I still do not understand whatever happens, many tech gives advice to upgrade firmware.
WHY?
98% of the time there is no need to update firmware for basic things. KM or any company just gives us some vague picture, try to frightened us (like MS - Auto update OS ) & we fall in trap.

PC software companies (especially OS )wants to sale their new products ( ex. win 8 / 10 etc) so they do not support backward versions and they do tie up with hardware manufactures (like printers or other ( some G3 devices do not work on G4) ) so hardware also gets sold without any question.
So Please understand basics of fault & problem. Lets not go over board

D Colour
02-22-2018, 06:35 PM
Have a look at this.

Bizhub C454, Cyan background/ghosting (http://www.copytechnet.com/forums/konica-minolta/124512-bizhub-c454-cyan-background-ghosting.html)

Habik has already suggested checking the background voltages. That was our problem in the above link.

copier addict
02-22-2018, 08:09 PM
How About toner?
Why We can't think about toner, There could be a spurious toner even if cartridge looks exactly same.
Offsetting could be due to toner not fusing properly, we have seen this in across many brands & models.

I still do not understand whatever happens, many tech gives advice to upgrade firmware.
WHY?
98% of the time there is no need to update firmware for basic things. KM or any company just gives us some vague picture, try to frightened us (like MS - Auto update OS ) & we fall in trap.

PC software companies (especially OS )wants to sale their new products ( ex. win 8 / 10 etc) so they do not support backward versions and they do tie up with hardware manufactures (like printers or other ( some G3 devices do not work on G4) ) so hardware also gets sold without any question.
So Please understand basics of fault & problem. Lets not go over board

It is just good practice to keep the firmware up to date on MFPs.

copyrooks
02-22-2018, 08:54 PM
How About toner?
Why We can't think about toner, There could be a spurious toner even if cartridge looks exactly same.
Offsetting could be due to toner not fusing properly, we have seen this in across many brands & models.

I still do not understand whatever happens, many tech gives advice to upgrade firmware.
WHY?
98% of the time there is no need to update firmware for basic things. KM or any company just gives us some vague picture, try to frightened us (like MS - Auto update OS ) & we fall in trap.

PC software companies (especially OS )wants to sale their new products ( ex. win 8 / 10 etc) so they do not support backward versions and they do tie up with hardware manufactures (like printers or other ( some G3 devices do not work on G4) ) so hardware also gets sold without any question.
So Please understand basics of fault & problem. Lets not go over board


Its pretty funny whenever you call Konica Minolta and make a ticket (request). The first question is which firmware and regardless of the problem the first "solution" is always update firmware and usually they won't give any other advice unless you say the firmware is the latest. When you go to Konica Minolta training though, most of the trainers who have experience on the field, and are not just stuck in the classroom all the time. Always say only upgrade for a very good reason. We service a local hospital and their IT dept always wants firmware updated for a program they can't figure out how to get to work with our copiers. I've had to upgrade and downgrade firmwares in order to get certain programs to print correctly. They even want to request a copier come shipped with a certain firmware from Konica Minolta, which I can't control. Anytime I hear an "IT dept/guy" mention firmware to me, usually they are looking for something to blame because they gave up or can't figure out the issue with their program.

copier addict
02-22-2018, 11:01 PM
Its pretty funny whenever you call Konica Minolta and make a ticket (request). The first question is which firmware and regardless of the problem the first "solution" is always update firmware and usually they won't give any other advice unless you say the firmware is the latest. When you go to Konica Minolta training though, most of the trainers who have experience on the field, and are not just stuck in the classroom all the time. Always say only upgrade for a very good reason. We service a local hospital and their IT dept always wants firmware updated for a program they can't figure out how to get to work with our copiers. I've had to upgrade and downgrade firmwares in order to get certain programs to print correctly. They even want to request a copier come shipped with a certain firmware from Konica Minolta, which I can't control. Anytime I hear an "IT dept/guy" mention firmware to me, usually they are looking for something to blame because they gave up or can't figure out the issue with their program.

The way I was taught in classroom training at KonMin was always update the base firmware and if necessary update the special firmware.

giddyupngo
02-23-2018, 04:39 PM
Swap the transfer roller, I know it seems crazy, but I have had transfer rollers cause ghosting on the print side. My only logical explanation is that the toner is not being pulled onto the paper completely, and the buildup on the belt overwhelms the cleaning blade. Let me know if it works.

Synaux
02-23-2018, 08:25 PM
Only other thing I can think of are the static-connections are not making a good connection on the transfer belt and perhaps the transfer roller.
Also, what temp is the fuser running at? (Although if it was the fuser, you would probably have toner build-up clumps on prints too.)


Its pretty funny whenever you call Konica Minolta and make a ticket (request). The first question is which firmware and regardless of the problem the first "solution" is always update firmware and usually they won't give any other advice unless you say the firmware is the latest. When you go to Konica Minolta training though, most of the trainers who have experience on the field, and are not just stuck in the classroom all the time. Always say only upgrade for a very good reason. We service a local hospital and their IT dept always wants firmware updated for a program they can't figure out how to get to work with our copiers. I've had to upgrade and downgrade firmwares in order to get certain programs to print correctly. They even want to request a copier come shipped with a certain firmware from Konica Minolta, which I can't control. Anytime I hear an "IT dept/guy" mention firmware to me, usually they are looking for something to blame because they gave up or can't figure out the issue with their program.
Side-rant time!!

Being an IT guy myself, I have read the release notes of many updates not just for firmware, but patches, updates, et cetera not necessarily copy machine-related.

But it is all the same.

Having done this so many times, it has been pounded into my mind that the coders are typically adding, deleting or adapting very small portions of a vast code (hell sometimes as simple as a single character needs to be changed/deleted within the code).
When you think about in that light--they are improving upon something that has already been proven to [mostly] work.
So why not update the firmware?
You guys seem to be quasi-complaining about something that is fundamental to IT; which I would argue digital duplication devices that have actual computer(s) (yes, sometimes more than one) inside them are certainly part of the IT rubric.

If you are worth your salt at all you should already have all the latest firmware preloaded on CF cards, USB drives, a laptop, and so on ready to go for all the models you service (for a multitude of reasons). It is a relatively simple solution to fix known issues.

The only counter to this are the unfortunate and absurd examples where one must "downgrade" in which whomever "updated" the code goofed so bad, they most likely are no longer employed. Or, I guess, if you need the potential extra work...

Synthohol
02-24-2018, 01:49 AM
ok, konica FW upgrades/changes are also taking into account the changing environments and security standards.
SMB 1/2/3 for example. and the whole gmail debacle with the non e series. these problems are usually remedied by changes in the firmware.
if everything works 100% at the customer, I dont just arbitrarily upgrade the firmware, there are other factors you need to take into account first.
best example i can think of is the 3 series and AS400 databases or other server based things that may print to it or receive a scan. i had one that the machines used account track for everything. AS400 databases dont know how to enter in a password to enable that print job. there was special FW that allowed a IP filter to only allow no password prints but you had to enable it, enter the server IP and then disable it and it worked as needed. if i just stuck the usb in without research i would have made my life (and the IT guy's) a living hell.
but outside of that, and the SMB/gmail stuff, if it aint broke dont fix it unless you have a reason to and you did your research to make sure nothing else will be affected.

ricoh FW is another story, there are way too many updates, i dont know how those guys deal with all of that.

AjitN
02-24-2018, 06:19 AM
Dear all
Sorry to open Pandora Box.
Most common problems we face are paper jamming, white / black lines, patches on prints, toner not fixing properly or image offsetting etc, etc, etc.

Firmware is what - its a specialise software integrated to particular hardware so it commands & controls components.
New as I mentioned above, most of these problems are purely due to hardware problems ( Almost 98% hardware & very few cases it could be firmware corruption) .
So if machine was working perfectly OK with older firmware version (whatever on machine) and developed some fault, why we should upgrade firmware in machine during fault condition? It can lead to something else & we get confused.

I think we should reload existing firmware version if needed, but first make sure that we have resolved problem by working on hardware part of printer ( PH, Fuser, Beld, Drum Dev etc.).

ONCE IF EVERYTHING IS SET RIGHT, THEN SOMEBODY MAY UPGRADE THE FIRMWARE TO ENHANCE THE CAPABILITY & PERFORMANCE OF PRINTER.

Hope many tech will agree with me on this.

Synaux
02-24-2018, 10:06 PM
ok, konica FW upgrades/changes are also taking into account the changing environments and security standards.
SMB 1/2/3 for example. and the whole gmail debacle with the non e series. these problems are usually remedied by changes in the firmware.
if everything works 100% at the customer, I dont just arbitrarily upgrade the firmware, there are other factors you need to take into account first.
best example i can think of is the 3 series and AS400 databases or other server based things that may print to it or receive a scan. i had one that the machines used account track for everything. AS400 databases dont know how to enter in a password to enable that print job. there was special FW that allowed a IP filter to only allow no password prints but you had to enable it, enter the server IP and then disable it and it worked as needed. if i just stuck the usb in without research i would have made my life (and the IT guy's) a living hell.
but outside of that, and the SMB/gmail stuff, if it aint broke dont fix it unless you have a reason to and you did your research to make sure nothing else will be affected.


ricoh FW is another story, there are way too many updates, i dont know how those guys deal with all of that.


I didn't think about the special FM that is an excellent point which is compounded by KM's terrible mess of things--unless they fixed it within the past couple years, you had to basically download the PDF for each and every special FW just to TRY and figure out what its function is.


Also, I agree with the if it ain't broke don't fix it mentality, but in the OP and the scenarios discussed the machines are not functioning correctly.



Dear all
Sorry to open Pandora Box.
Most common problems we face are paper jamming, white / black lines, patches on prints, toner not fixing properly or image offsetting etc, etc, etc.


Firmware is what - its a specialise software integrated to particular hardware so it commands & controls components.
New as I mentioned above, most of these problems are purely due to hardware problems ( Almost 98% hardware & very few cases it could be firmware corruption) .
So if machine was working perfectly OK with older firmware version (whatever on machine) and developed some fault, why we should upgrade firmware in machine during fault condition? It can lead to something else & we get confused.


I think we should reload existing firmware version if needed, but first make sure that we have resolved problem by working on hardware part of printer ( PH, Fuser, Beld, Drum Dev etc.).


ONCE IF EVERYTHING IS SET RIGHT, THEN SOMEBODY MAY UPGRADE THE FIRMWARE TO ENHANCE THE CAPABILITY & PERFORMANCE OF PRINTER.


Hope many tech will agree with me on this.
You opened the Tech Wars lol...

But yeah I pretty much agree.

However, mocking IT and KM for suggesting (or even insisting) that the FW/software be up to date in circumstances that things are not working as intended (what everyone is discussing until now) is in my mind absurd, boarding on gross complacency. FW is one of the essential components any machine, but the general discussion here seems to treat FW as the ghost in the machine instead of a component. This leads to the notion that code does not get corrupted and is generally written flawlessly upon the first release and therefore not the issue so F those incompetent IT guys for defaulting to the basics and suggesting that the "tech" complete a fairly easy task.

Maybe I am the crazy one in all this but

UPDATE ALL THE THINGS!! :p

-=End Rant=-

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