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mihailelea
04-27-2018, 12:02 PM
Hi!
I'm in the business of refurbishing second hand printers and selling them.
I had little experience so far with Konica Minolta, I was more a HP fan, but I've started to bring Konica Minolta's in my shop recently.
Basically I want to sell them with 100% toner, 100% developer, 100% fusing unit, 100% transfer belt etc.
I have no problem replacing the toner, fuser, belt etc..., but my question is:
If I buy new developer (in a bag, not developing unit), can I save the old developer that is still left in the developing unit and reuse it in another printer?
I have 2 copiers that came with 60%, 70% developer. Can I pour the 60% developer from the first copier in the developing unit of the second copier?
So, what happens to the developer over time? Does it consumes like the toner, or does it have some properties that diminish with a no. of prints?
I hope I don't offend anyone with my noob question...
Thank's in advance!

copyman
04-27-2018, 12:29 PM
I would not reuse the developer. I sell a lot of Kon/Min off lease machines. I sell with full toners but if other consumables are over 50% (usually are over 50% because I only buy low meter machines) I sell the machines without replacing any of the consumables. Before selling I make sure to turn off the warnings for the consumables. They can run way past their life with no quality drop off. By the time you replace all the consumables your profit is gone!

luca72
04-27-2018, 01:38 PM
Hi!
I'm in the business of refurbishing second hand printers and selling them.
I had little experience so far with Konica Minolta, I was more a HP fan, but I've started to bring Konica Minolta's in my shop recently.
Basically I want to sell them with 100% toner, 100% developer, 100% fusing unit, 100% transfer belt etc.
I have no problem replacing the toner, fuser, belt etc..., but my question is:
If I buy new developer (in a bag, not developing unit), can I save the old developer that is still left in the developing unit and reuse it in another printer?
I have 2 copiers that came with 60%, 70% developer. Can I pour the 60% developer from the first copier in the developing unit of the second copier?
So, what happens to the developer over time? Does it consumes like the toner, or does it have some properties that diminish with a no. of prints?
I hope I don't offend anyone with my noob question...
Thank's in advance!

hello, I think it's never a good idea to reuse one machine's developers in another, partly because sometimes the groups already have problems and their defects, you risk to go against strange error codes and copy quality problems, moreover sometimes the developer lasts less than established ... the starting point is a new developer, as well as the whole new unit, good work

blackcat4866
04-27-2018, 02:55 PM
The ferrite particles have a resin coating on them, to create the tribo-electric effect (static electricity). As that resin wears off it produces less tribo-electric effect, eventually leaving some of that developer on the paper, into the drum cleaner and waste bottle, and into the bottom of the machine. Most modern machines have supplemental ferrite in the toner cartridge to help extend the life of the developer. At some point though the developer will be leaving the machine much faster than it's entering. Typically the machine will add too much toner and you'll start to see background or toner dumping on the paper, but it may undertone instead, going faint. By the time you notice overtoning or undertoning it's pretty advanced, and it's time to change out that developer.

Most modern machines do not sell developer separately from the developing unit, making your question a moot point.

Assuming you could collect this used developer, how would you know the current toner density of the developer you removed? And how would you know how much has been lost/depleted? I do know techs that use precision scales to weigh a new developing unit, then fill the used developing unit to the same weight, but that doesn't answer the first question.

After all that I'll just say, don't do it. You'll create difficult to diagnose problems for yourself. =^..^=

mihailelea
04-27-2018, 03:19 PM
The ferrite particles have a resin coating on them, to create the tribo-electric effect (static electricity). As that resin wears off it produces less tribo-electric effect, eventually leaving some of that developer on the paper, into the drum cleaner and waste bottle, and into the bottom of the machine. Most modern machines have supplemental ferrite in the toner cartridge to help extend the life of the developer. At some point though the developer will be leaving the machine much faster than it's entering. Typically the machine will add too much toner and you'll start to see background or toner dumping on the paper, but it may undertone instead, going faint. By the time you notice overtoning or undertoning it's pretty advanced, and it's time to change out that developer.

Most modern machines do not sell developer separately from the developing unit, making your question a moot point.

Assuming you could collect this used developer, how would you know the current toner density of the developer you removed? And how would you know how much has been lost/depleted? I do know techs that use precision scales to weigh a new developing unit, then fill the used developing unit to the same weight, but that doesn't answer the first question.

After all that I'll just say, don't do it. You'll create difficult to diagnose problems for yourself. =^..^=


Thank you!
I believe this is the answer I was waiting for.
Now I understand why I should't do it, and I definitely won't.
Thank's again!

copyman
04-27-2018, 04:54 PM
Great explanation BC of the science with developers, toners. I think the original poster was talking about a bag of aftermarket developer which is being sold now. I tried the kon/min "4" series aftermarket developer but didn't work well.

blackcat4866
04-27-2018, 10:22 PM
Back in my Canon/Ricoh days my employer for a while used Katun developer and toner. The idea was that since Katun designed both parts they should be well suited to each other. In practical application though Ricohs dump Katun toner just as effectively as Ricoh toner. =^..^=

copyman
04-27-2018, 11:00 PM
Yep, I remember those old Ricoh's with aftermarket toner. I recall a lot of overtoning. Personally back then with analog Ricoh's I never liked the toner add system. ID sensor reading a patch, etc. I hated those toner pigs! Vac every call !!!

antone
05-01-2018, 03:38 AM
No you can't ..sorry
.


Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

yianni
07-08-2018, 08:12 PM
Just for my curiosity, for which modes are you interested for? I suppose for desktop KM machines, I'm correct?

> I have 2 copiers that came with 60%, 70% developer. Can I pour the 60% developer from the first copier in
> the developing unit of the second copier?

70% means that the developer unit worked 30% of its life. It may contains 100% of the developer powder.

copyman
07-08-2018, 09:13 PM
Yanni is right. Developer is not "consumed", it just "carries" the toner. The consumable life % doesn't mean the developer was removed from dev unit it just means that's how much it's carried the toner in it.

Synthohol
07-08-2018, 10:58 PM
you are seeing the % of life left on the DV units themselves.

blackcat4866
07-08-2018, 11:35 PM
Just for my curiosity, for which modes are you interested for? I suppose for desktop KM machines, I'm correct?

> I have 2 copiers that came with 60%, 70% developer. Can I pour the 60% developer from the first copier in
> the developing unit of the second copier?

70% means that the developer unit worked 30% of its life. It may contains 100% of the developer powder.

Exactly how will you determine the toner density, and or the proper quantity of developer? =^..^=

AjitN
07-09-2018, 05:42 AM
Great explanation BC of the science with developers, toners. I think the original poster was talking about a bag of aftermarket developer which is being sold now. I tried the kon/min "4" series aftermarket developer but didn't work well.

I am using C8000 developers in low speed machines, cheap but ORIGINAL option, & works very much fine.

Boltaction
07-09-2018, 04:56 PM
I would not reuse the developer. I sell a lot of Kon/Min off lease machines. I sell with full toners but if other consumables are over 50% (usually are over 50% because I only buy low meter machines) I sell the machines without replacing any of the consumables. Before selling I make sure to turn off the warnings for the consumables. They can run way past their life with no quality drop off. By the time you replace all the consumables your profit is gone!

In my experience, as I have a lot of these machines in the field, running drums past life is fine but if they go too far they will begin to deplete developer prematurely. We used to set the machines up in the shop with all consumable reminders off until we started to notice c-255x codes relating to undertonned/overtonned developer units, to which the only cure is replacing an $800 developer unit (sometimes multiple). Because the genuine Konica Minolta drum units run for so long before showing lines/streaking, the risk of the drums zapping developer units increase. We have since turned the drum reminder on at the expense of maintenance customers calling for us to replace the drum units.

BillyCarpenter
03-30-2021, 12:54 PM
This thread was an interesting read...even if it was from 2018. :p

allan
03-30-2021, 01:58 PM
Yea and i am the guilty one reusing the developer....

allan
03-30-2021, 04:56 PM
Can't help it i have to spill.

Developer does get #u&ed in more than one way. The sharp corners for the grains gets warn down and your nice and puffy mag brush is not the same anymore and these rounded grains have a way of breaking free from the magnetic field. Toner gets impacted onto the grains also making it less attracted to the magnetic field, it gets heavier and the extra weight is not magnetic. With the impacted toner machines using toner to carrier ratio sensors will count the toner stuck to the developer as part of the toner concentration and will read a higher TCR value leading to less toner supplied and resulting in light prints. Eventually a lot of the developer would have escaped from the tank and some machines have a minimum value of toner it will add counted by hopper rotations. If there is still enough developer in the tank to cover the mag roller the set amount of toner added will be too much overshooting the TCR target leading to over-toning. Then there is paper dust, its got a way of getting into the dev tank and then just accumulates in there. The paper dust is added to the toner side of the ratio and leads to the machine not adding enough toner.

You can setup a bench tool to read TCR value of a dev toner mix if you really want to.
Its amazing to see that most of the developer used by the OEM's are the same stuff regardless if its color or not.

Phil B.
03-30-2021, 05:03 PM
I hope you've solved your problem! I also sell printers. I have been in this business for several years and a colleague of mine advised me to start selling second hand printers. I have always sold only new printers but now during the crisis, my sales have declined and it seems to me that new customers are not ready to spend a lot of money on new printers now. In addition, I want to develop my own website and maybe even an app so that every new customer can find my products and services online. I would like to know the software engineer hourly rate (https://devoxsoftware.com/blog/average-software-developer-hourly-rate/)? Perhaps you can help me with your advice? Thank you in advance!

your comment does not pertain to this thread... please post it here ---> https://www.copytechnet.com/forums/business-talk/

tsbservice
03-30-2021, 05:53 PM
Can't help it i have to spill.

Developer does get #u&ed in more than one way. The sharp corners for the grains gets warn down and your nice and puffy mag brush is not the same anymore and these rounded grains have a way of breaking free from the magnetic field. Toner gets impacted onto the grains also making it less attracted to the magnetic field, it gets heavier and the extra weight is not magnetic. With the impacted toner machines using toner to carrier ratio sensors will count the toner stuck to the developer as part of the toner concentration and will read a higher TCR value leading to less toner supplied and resulting in light prints. Eventually a lot of the developer would have escaped from the tank and some machines have a minimum value of toner it will add counted by hopper rotations. If there is still enough developer in the tank to cover the mag roller the set amount of toner added will be too much overshooting the TCR target leading to over-toning. Then there is paper dust, its got a way of getting into the dev tank and then just accumulates in there. The paper dust is added to the toner side of the ratio and leads to the machine not adding enough toner.

You can setup a bench tool to read TCR value of a dev toner mix if you really want to.
Its amazing to see that most of the developer used by the OEM's are the same stuff regardless if its color or not.

I'm very glad we have here many actually thinking engineers not only toner jockeys/masters of screwdriver. Sometimes I feel so lone where I am 😅

apostlegato
03-30-2021, 07:34 PM
The % is life remaining not level remaining. Developer isn't consumed it just wears. However if there is arcing, as was common in older machines, it would suck the developer out into the machine and create usually worse arcing and eventually error code for TLD, ATDC, L-Detect(Toner Level). I actually used to save some developer to repair a machine in a pinch. Fix the arcing issue first of course, Then add a little of the used developer at a time until the error went away or L-detect was successful, then hope it would hold up until I could return with a new developer. But with current models I wouldnt save developer. However I have saved the waste toner on monochrome machines. Ive actually poured the waste toner back into the toner bottle on a couple occasions. Way back in the day, when Konica originally had waste toner bottles and the toner bottle poured into the hopper, our service manager had us dumping waste toner into the toner hopper on every service call. Which from the model 7033 2000-ish, until the 4 series most if not all the monochrome Konica actually did this anyway.

allan
03-31-2021, 04:15 AM
I have saved the waste toner on monochrome machines. Ive actually poured the waste toner back into the toner bottle on a couple occasions.I have saved the waste toner on monochrome machines. Ive actually poured the waste toner back into the toner bottle on a couple occasions.


What a waste... Yea been doing it. Pity the waste from 754 will not be good for a 423.
Had to do it for my 951 machines due to shortages and no ill effect. Sure its not the best to keep your developer crisp.

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