bizhub 423, 93-10 , Duplex/Switch Back

[CopierNerd]

Dear Experts and Experienced Fellows,

bizhub 423,
Paper Jamming in Duplex Section,
Jam Code> 93-10,
Jam indication at 14 Number,
RTFM! No details for this particular code.
Paper gets jam after 30, 40, or sometimes 60 copies (Duplex). Sometime did not jam at all.
During Switching back and entering in duplex, when paper touches the actuator of PS92 Duplex unit upper transport sensor (PS92) get blocked properly but Duplex transport motor does not energize. As a result paper gets jam.

Work Done> Replaced PS92,
PS91, PS93 Cleaned and swapped, No progress,
Switchback Motor swapped with Duplex Motor, No progress,
Checked Belts
Checked Connectors

Relevant Parts> Switchback Motor, Duplex Motor, PS91, PS92, PS93, PRCB,

Any suggestions?

[allan]

Fighting the same demon now. Paper goes into the duplex and stops under the middle roller in the duplex.
Change the motor the sensors for the duplex door and the flag sensor changed the fuser and the switch back unit with no luck.
Not sure if its fixed but i removed the duplex drive and twisted it to force the belts to tension and no problem after that what i know of.
Funny thing is it would work for long streaks and then continues to jam until I touch the machine and then runs again.
If it reoccurs i am going to replace the harness going the the side door...


Clicks on your machine?

[blackcat4866]

Fighting the same demon now. Paper goes into the duplex and stops under the middle roller in the duplex.
Change the motor the sensors for the duplex door and the flag sensor changed the fuser and the switch back unit with no luck.
Not sure if its fixed but i removed the duplex drive and twisted it to force the belts to tension and no problem after that what i know of.
Funny thing is it would work for long streaks and then continues to jam until I touch the machine and then runs again.
If it reoccurs i am going to replace the harness going the the side door...


Clicks on your machine?

A broken lead in the harness could create an intermittent issue like this.

Anything unusual about the media?
=^..^=

[CopierNerd]

Fighting the same demon now. Paper goes into the duplex and stops under the middle roller in the duplex.
Change the motor the sensors for the duplex door and the flag sensor changed the fuser and the switch back unit with no luck.
Not sure if its fixed but i removed the duplex drive and twisted it to force the belts to tension and no problem after that what i know of.
Funny thing is it would work for long streaks and then continues to jam until I touch the machine and then runs again.
If it reoccurs i am going to replace the harness going the the side door...


Clicks on your machine?

Clicks: 1150K+

I will check the harness.
Thanks

[CopierNerd]

A broken lead in the harness could create an intermittent issue like this.

Anything unusual about the media?
=^..^=

Anything unusual about the media is, Wrinkles are appearing during duplex. Single sided copies> No problem at all, no wrinkles.

If lead is broken then i can check its continuity via Multi-meter.

[mjunkaged]

Anything unusual about the media is, Wrinkles are appearing during duplex. Single sided copies> No problem at all, no wrinkles.

If lead is broken then i can check its continuity via Multi-meter.

Wrinkled duplex and perfect single sided usually ends up being a fuser unit about to go for me. Does it do the same wrinkling from all trays, different sizes/directions?:confused:

[mjunkaged]

Fighting the same demon now. Paper goes into the duplex and stops under the middle roller in the duplex.
Change the motor the sensors for the duplex door and the flag sensor changed the fuser and the switch back unit with no luck.
Not sure if its fixed but i removed the duplex drive and twisted it to force the belts to tension and no problem after that what i know of.
Funny thing is it would work for long streaks and then continues to jam until I touch the machine and then runs again.
If it reoccurs i am going to replace the harness going the the side door...


Clicks on your machine?

Does yours wrinkle on duplex Allan?:confused: See ?? to poster......

[allan]

Does yours wrinkle on duplex Allan?:confused: See ?? to poster......

Nope no wrinkle but the same issue but J93-10 and amount of clicks the same.
The paper before the fuser does wrinkle due to machine stopping when the duplex jam occurs.
The tray alignment could be an issue.

[CopierNerd]

Wrinkled duplex and perfect single sided usually ends up being a fuser unit about to go for me. Does it do the same wrinkling from all trays, different sizes/directions?:confused:

Yes, you are right! wrinkled duplex can be due to expired pressure roller. Mine is suspicious. Main issue is jamming in Duplex.

[3ktlc]

Had to replace the bushings for the exit roller for this problem.

[darry1322]

Dear Experts and Experienced Fellows,

bizhub 423,
Paper Jamming in Duplex Section,
Jam Code> 93-10,
Jam indication at 14 Number,
RTFM! No details for this particular code.
Paper gets jam after 30, 40, or sometimes 60 copies (Duplex). Sometime did not jam at all.
During Switching back and entering in duplex, when paper touches the actuator of PS92 Duplex unit upper transport sensor (PS92) get blocked properly but Duplex transport motor does not energize. As a result paper gets jam.

Work Done> Replaced PS92,
PS91, PS93 Cleaned and swapped, No progress,
Switchback Motor swapped with Duplex Motor, No progress,
Checked Belts
Checked Connectors

Relevant Parts> Switchback Motor, Duplex Motor, PS91, PS92, PS93, PRCB,

Any suggestions?


I have no suggestions beyond what's already been posted. Just wanted to say that's a damn fine write-up of the situation.

[allan]

Had to replace the bushings for the exit roller for this problem.

I will go and inspect this bushing.
You mean the roller on the top of the door.
The first duplex entrance roller?

[blackcat4866]

Yes, the wrinkles point to one of three possible sources:
Moist Paper
Fuser wear, and 1.2M is about right yield on the fuser.
Loose or misaligned paper in the paper tray.

It really depends on how long the harness is, and how many flex points there are. You'll want clip leads for your meter. We call it the wiggle test.
Set the meter to beep/lowest resistance setting. Clip your meter leads onto both ends of the particular wire, then flex the wire at it's usual flex points (where doors hinge, parts move, etc. The harness usually does not break in places that are unmoving in a loom). Once you find an intermittent connection you can solder and shrink wrap it.

I must say, as a newbie you seemed to have jumped in with both feet! Great observations! And you did stuff before posting! I wish you could teach that to about half the techs posting on Copytechnet. Kudos!
=^..^=

[CopierNerd]

Had to replace the bushings for the exit roller for this problem.

Paper Exit/Switchback roller is in Switchback unit. I guess you are suggesting about the wrinkling problem not jamming?

I will surely check this one too.

[CopierNerd]

Yes, the wrinkles point to one of three possible sources:
Moist Paper
Fuser wear, and 1.2M is about right yield on the fuser.
Loose or misaligned paper in the paper tray.

It really depends on how long the harness is, and how many flex points there are. You'll want clip leads for your meter. We call it the wiggle test.
Set the meter to beep/lowest resistance setting. Clip your meter leads onto both ends of the particular wire, then flex the wire at it's usual flex points (where doors hinge, parts move, etc. The harness usually does not break in places that are unmoving in a loom). Once you find an intermittent connection you can solder and shrink wrap it.

I must say, as a newbie you seemed to have jumped in with both feet! Great observations! And you did stuff before posting! I wish you could teach that to about half the techs posting on Copytechnet. Kudos!
=^..^=

Thank you very much blackcat4866 for these kind words.

[3ktlc]

Paper Exit/Switchback roller is in Switchback unit. I guess you are suggesting about the wrinkling problem not jamming?

I will surely check this one too.
yes. the switchback unit.

[tsbservice]

From C452 manual 93-10 is duplex transport section jam. Go from there to the P.594 of bizhub 423 manual and do troubleshooting starting with duplex pre-registration section through the duplex transport section.
But first check bushings for the exit roller as 3ktlc suggested.

P.S
Good posting of the problem, keep this line.

[allan]

Any luck yet?
Today the problem returned...
So replaced the door harness with no luck then removed the inner door plate to get to the duplex actuator
Found the door housing and the actuator shaft worn out but not to the extent where it fails? Need new side door...
Could be that the flag does not return in a time?
Played with it with no luck.
They use crisscross sort so changed every second tray to new orientation. Now it runs again????
:confused:

[CopierNerd]

Any luck yet?
Today the problem returned...
So replaced the door harness with no luck then removed the inner door plate to get to the duplex actuator
Found the door housing and the actuator shaft worn out but not to the extent where it fails? Need new side door...
Could be that the flag does not return in a time?
Played with it with no luck.
They use crisscross sort so changed every second tray to new orientation. Now it runs again????
:confused:

I didn't go there again to check. Customer informed me over the phone that it jams sometime and sometime don't. So they are using it anyhow. I think whole door replacement is the last resort.

[mjunkaged]

I didn't go there again to check. Customer informed me over the phone that it jams sometime and sometime don't. So they are using it anyhow. I think whole door replacement is the last resort.

Could it be a sticky solenoid in the gate/diverter? It may test fine but not release quickly enough.......like a sensor with a wimpy spring! I KNOW you guys did not hang the switchback wrong at the frame! I've never had to do it with a bizhub yet, but it happens all the time in the smaller machines, steel solenoid magnetizes, and loses insulator pad between coil and actuator (or never had one).......electrical tape is a quick long fix if it sticks.:cool: I also had to stretch out a return spring on a magicolor to make it stop mis-registering (plunger type).

[allan]

With this design they eliminated the solenoid driven gate. The duplex and the paper exit use the same path. Will post a video soon.
The timing is so tight on the paper returning to the duplex and the paper exiting its like bad magic...

[mjunkaged]

With this design they eliminated the solenoid driven gate. The duplex and the paper exit use the same path. Will post a video soon.
The timing is so tight on the paper returning to the duplex and the paper exiting its like bad magic...

Sorry about that, did not open manual (parts or service) before posting my guess........thanks for enlightening me! Does it still hang on the frame with those keyhole cutouts on screws, like all the old B&W?:confused::cool:

[allan]

Jip super quick to remove. Remove the fuser and then loosen two and remove two screws.
This is a weird issue that happens to these machines is it runs the duplex past 500K...
Every one that gave me advise told me its the motors, but these motors don't fail easy.
Will have to find a door in a good condition.
Think its the sensor flag that moves erratically combined with tight timing due to wear on the actuator housing.

[3ktlc]

I have had 1 motor failed. Thought it was due to the bushings locking up.

[CopierNerd]

Jip super quick to remove. Remove the fuser and then loosen two and remove two screws.
This is a weird issue that happens to these machines is it runs the duplex past 500K...
Every one that gave me advise told me its the motors, but these motors don't fail easy.
Will have to find a door in a good condition.
Think its the sensor flag that moves erratically combined with tight timing due to wear on the actuator housing.

Allan! I went there again. This time not with old used side door but with the idea to check the harness. If any wire is damage inside. I removed the side door. Removed the metallic plate and torn the harness (Black Covering) After removing, i checked every wire all way to the PRCB. It was OK.No damage. Then i removed complete assembly, Duplex Transport motor, Sensor, Drive belts etc. Cleaned the shafts and lubricate them. Didnt bend any shaft to increase tension of belts. After lubricating i fixed it back. Closed the whole door and installed it.
When i made copies, duplex unit was soundless like new. That damned code didnt appear again, No jam in duplex transport no jam any where. My problem solved just by cleaning and lubricating the duplex transport unit and removing the harness from the connectors. I want you to try this too.

I thought what is in the door left for replacement? for which i need to replace the whole door? As i had already replaced switchback motor, duplex transport motor, All sensors, wiring and checked actuators too.So i did this which was left to do.

[blackcat4866]

Congratulations on your success. Exploratory surgery is a reasonable solution. Surprisingly often you can solve an issue without actually knowing what you fixed. =^..^=

[allan]

Also striped and cleaned the duplex and the problem is a lot better after i tweaked the sensor actuator that got worn out.
Now its jamming every other thousandth prints.
I have ordered a new actuator to see it it will resolve the problem. The door body will get a bit of hot iron treatment.

[allan]

Ok got it MacGuyver fixed by removing pressure from the exit driven rollers where the switchback motor was holding the edge of the paper!
Melted a paperclip thru from the bottom hooked it over the shaft pulled the shaft down and bent the paperclip to hold its position.

Not a fan of these kind of fixes but can't work my head around why it happend.
Other things i tried was changing the sensor flat lenght by adding to it and the sensor position with no luck.

Did clean all of the shafts and there is no strain on the duplex drive.

[mjunkaged]

Ok got it MacGuyver fixed by removing pressure from the exit driven rollers where the switchback motor was holding the edge of the paper!
Melted a paperclip thru from the bottom hooked it over the shaft pulled the shaft down and bent the paperclip to hold its position.

Not a fan of these kind of fixes but can't work my head around why it happend.
Other things i tried was changing the sensor flat lenght by adding to it and the sensor position with no luck.

Did clean all of the shafts and there is no strain on the duplex drive.

Could it be that heat from fusing unit bows the plastic??:confused:

[allan]

Could it be that heat from fusing unit bows the plastic??:confused:

I changed the switchback unit out with a known working one and installed on another machine that is working so i don't think so.
The holding torque on the switchback motor when stopping just to soon clamps the edge of the paper between the exit rollers on the way back into the duplex unit.
It actually stalls out the duplex motor that is still trying to pull to paper. So my thinking was if i remove pressure from the exit rollers then the duplex motor will win the tug of war.
Glad it worked!

Could be a faulty control board. But just to stubborn to replace it.

[CopierNerd]

Congratulations on your success. Exploratory surgery is a reasonable solution. Surprisingly often you can solve an issue without actually knowing what you fixed. =^..^=

Allan! ITS BACK!

I am afraid, Its back! Jamming in Duplex. Lubricating the duplex bushing, motor and belts was not long lasting.

[mjunkaged]

Ok got it MacGuyver fixed by removing pressure from the exit driven rollers where the switchback motor was holding the edge of the paper!
Melted a paperclip thru from the bottom hooked it over the shaft pulled the shaft down and bent the paperclip to hold its position.

Not a fan of these kind of fixes but can't work my head around why it happend.
Other things i tried was changing the sensor flat lenght by adding to it and the sensor position with no luck.

Did clean all of the shafts and there is no strain on the duplex drive.

Copiernerd: Maybe his fix will work on yours?:confused::cool:

[allan]

Copiernerd: Maybe his fix will work on yours?:confused::cool:

That actually worked! Will take a pic of the fix on my next call. 30 000 prints later...

Now the machine right next to it (also running duplex in the millions) decided to start frying the duplex motor driver chips on the control board!
Just to much strain on the drive heats up the driver IC to where it fries. Need new door...
Two boards later i now have resorted to changing the IC out and installing a fan right on top of it.
BD63885EFV stepper driver IC. With no data sheets anywhere!!! 28 pin MSOP.
Still can't believe i pulled that off by hand removing from donor board using switchback IC and replacing it.

41896

How that tinny little thing is suppose to handle 1.5A of current blows my mind!

[allan]

Well here is the pics.
Check that sexy glue gun job. Does the business of not replacing the entire door. Darn driven roller housings...
Sure i could mod that but that machine needs to go, it puts up a display!
Wish i could get one but so far no luck.:(

Used that pinterest thing yuck. But have an account and don't want the CTN upload to butcher the quality.
Pin by Allan on Copier Stuff | Pinterest (https://pin.it/zzxw7wf6w3txh4)
Pin by Allan on Copier Stuff | Pinterest (https://pin.it/kvqkze7mqf5frn)