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DigiMan
07-04-2019, 03:53 PM
Hey everyone,

Got myself in a pretty bad pickle today.Long story short co-worker went to clean the coronas(M/Y)
and uppon closing the front door when finished(he didnt pull out the process unit)he got a persistent C-2470.
Heres what i did today:
Cleaned the hell out the machine(contacts in the back,springs etc).
Checked with I/O and the front door open everything turns manually(Drums,devs etc).
Checked 25-00 for front door sensor,checks out.
Checked 43-00 for DCPS/1,checks out.
Checked 29-07 for process unit detection mechanism/2,checks out.
BUT! 29-06(process unit detection mechanism/1)doesnt work,it gives constant zero upon pulling out and putting in the process unit.
Note:The code pops immediately after you close the main door,no warm ups no nothing.
Service manual says to change the wirings but how could the wirings fault without even messing with them?Tried to measure the corresponding CNs in the printer board but the terminology on the connectors is beyond my skill so didnt do anything..
I already ordered a new PRCB and wirings but i would like some opinions on the matter because if these both wont work im not gonna hear the end of it from the customer...

Thanks guys

blackcat4866
07-04-2019, 05:21 PM
If I were to make a guess, I'd say that there is a bent pin on the modular connector for the process drawer. I cannot find any sort of interlock system for the process drawer, so perhaps it checks the continuity through the modular connector.

Logically it might be looking for a loop on the drawer side, but it may use a specific component as simple as a photointerrupter to determine if that drawer is closed.

I have a colleague that spent a week with a bizhub 1200P that was giving intermittent fuser codes (6 or 8 times a day). His problem turned out to be a damaged pin in the fuser modular connector. The error cleared every time, and returned within the hour.

So the problem might be the harness in the back of the machine, or the drawer harness, or the PRCB. Your co-worker may have just been unlucky enough to rest his hand on the machine that day, nothing more than that.

Please let us know how it goes. =^..^=

DigiMan
07-04-2019, 07:19 PM
Thanks for the input BC,pretty sure it uses the connector for the feedback as i had today another co-worker on a 6085 and he got an output on the 29-06 just by locking unlocking the process unit..does that require also a signal from the PRCB to give the intended result?Not sure to be honest and quite frankly kinda tired to even think today considering the amount of s@#t i just heard from the owner..Alas il just try to stay positive and start changing parts..

P.S sorry for the rant

tsbservice
07-04-2019, 08:16 PM
Man, can't help cuz I'm not seeing this machines at all, but wish you good luck!
Everyone has one of that bad days, just stay positive and the sun will shine another day. Look.
I hate when can't fix them right now, still winning almost every game. When you play games you are not supposed to win all of them, yet you manage to fix most problems. Regroup and come back stronger with more ideas and more knowledge, that helped me numerous times.
BR, tsb

tsbservice
07-05-2019, 09:49 AM
DigiMan, found that see if it helps, basically it's what BC recomended :

Error
C-2470 during installation.

Root Cause
Loose interim connector on the front of the process unit.


Workaround/Fix
Verify interim connector (located on the front of the process unit) shown below is properly connected.


P.S.
Also manual states if 29-06 checked NG but 29-07 checked OK, you should check connectors and wiring, which in turn means, no boards are faulty.
If I bet my money probably will go for a bent pin.

DigiMan
07-05-2019, 11:20 AM
@tsbservice thank you for the kind words,always nice to hear these things from techs with way more experience than myself.
It boggles the mind sometimes when you try your best to help someone and still get s#@t for it.
In any case,i tried to find the bulletin you mentioned but could not find it,at least in infohub.
Could you send the picture of the connector shown in the bulletin?

Thnks a ton again

tsbservice
07-05-2019, 11:59 AM
I don't know where bulletin is in infohub, sadly mentioned picture can't be open/or view otherwise I will upload it for you.

DigiMan
07-05-2019, 12:04 PM
I don't know where bulletin is in infohub, sadly mentioned picture can't be open/or view otherwise I will upload it for you.

Darn,PrintScreen?

tsbservice
07-05-2019, 12:20 PM
Darn,PrintScreen?
Nah, won't open at all, that is all I can see, tried with 3 different browsers, but attachment just misses:
https://cscsupport.mykonicaminolta.com/arsys/shared/image.jsp?server=ssdremprdaas&port=8000&form=RKM:KnownErrorTemplate&entryId=000000000013002&fieldId=302311216&userId=antone_gomes

C2470 mentions two wirings:
-A92WN147
-A92WN123
They can be found in parts list on page 62 and 131, see if you can find something similar in machine.
It's CN1103

tulintron
07-05-2019, 12:47 PM
Good Morning. I'll try to give a kick to help.




Check the ICP's of the PRCB.


Presenting the error as soon as the door closes, there is something wrong with the electronics.

tulintron
07-05-2019, 01:00 PM
Check this image...

DigiMan
07-05-2019, 01:01 PM
@tsbservice I remember checking them yesterday but maybe i missed it,i'l check again.Thnks so much!

@tulintron Yeah forgot to mention that that was my first guess as well and i checked everything without finding a fuse blown sadly..

tulintron
07-05-2019, 01:09 PM
Connectors

DigiMan
07-05-2019, 01:10 PM
Check this image...

Damn,been so long i fiddled with fuses i didnt even know the book had a list of them.I did check a bunch of them but i definitely did not check all of those.Interestingly enough ICP1 connects to the ADU lock solenoid which in turn if you go to I/O check 29-06 it connects with that too which is the only check that returns abnormal when you close the process unit,but what does the adu has to do with the process unit?

tulintron
07-05-2019, 01:45 PM
Damn,been so long i fiddled with fuses i didnt even know the book had a list of them.I did check a bunch of them but i definitely did not check all of those.Interestingly enough ICP1 connects to the ADU lock solenoid which in turn if you go to I/O check 29-06 it connects with that too which is the only check that returns abnormal when you close the process unit,but what does the adu has to do with the process unit?The connection between the Processing Unit and the ADU is that it does not open both at the same time.

Process unit open, solenoid does not open ADU.


ADU open, does not open Processing Unit.

The tests that you performed and gave positive, do not need the unit closed.. With lid open, unit open, you can test them. The motors are not in the unit.


I may be wrong, but everything indicates PRCB. I hope it's really an ICP.

DigiMan
07-05-2019, 02:03 PM
The connection between the Processing Unit and the ADU is that it does not open both at the same time.

Process unit open, solenoid does not open ADU.


ADU open, does not open Processing Unit.

The tests that you performed and gave positive, do not need the unit closed.. With lid open, unit open, you can test them. The motors are not in the unit.


I may be wrong, but everything indicates PRCB. I hope it's really an ICP.

No argument here but when i did the tests i had a co-worker on the phone doing the same
tests on a same machine.In his case Locking/unlocking the process unit gave the 29-06 and 29-07 aces and zeros.
In my case locking/unlocking the process unit the 29-06 always stayed zero.Thats why im confused..
Plus according to the manual supposedly if I/O 29-07 checks out the PRCB and DCPS/1 are fine which is my case.


Edit:Scrambling through the icp list none of them point out to a C-2470 if blown...im starting to lean more and more towards the wiring..
In my rather small experience i only had one time a PRCB on a C-253 which one of the pins didnt output 3V for a fusing fan to work(no fuses blows no nothing) and it took me forever to find out.God i hope this is not my second time.

DigiMan
07-17-2019, 05:43 PM
Sooo after having some "interesting times" in the past few days got an update.
Changed the PRCB,no result.
Changed the wiring from the PRCB to the process unit,no result.
Changed DCPS/1,you guessed it,no result.
Problem resolved by changing the front wiring(CN1103).

Sooo should i feel stupid for not going for that first??I mean,the said wiring controls the EL's Fr/Rr Cleaning sensors of the coronas
the Potential assy's and the Color registration sensors which all of them worked by enabling them manually through I/O so what gives?

Feel free to shame me a bit if you feel i need it.
Big thnks to @blackcat4866 (http://www.copytechnet.com/forums/members/blackcat4866.html) @tsbservice (http://www.copytechnet.com/forums/members/tsbservice.html) @tulintron (http://www.copytechnet.com/forums/members/tulintron.html) for their input(which ironically i did not follow..sorry guys)

tsbservice
07-17-2019, 07:57 PM
As soon as tech resolved problem, I don't care much of following advices, it's a bit of trial and error.
You maybe just lose some time, but maybe gain some needed knowledge.
What I do care about is following up, what you did. Thanks and keep the paper warm.

blackcat4866
07-18-2019, 12:03 AM
I can count on one hand how many times a harness has fixed something. No shame for you. Big points for PERSISTENCE. IMHO it's the only real skill we have as technicians. Just keep banging your head against the brick wall until the brick wall gives.

Do you have any theories about where the harness got pinched? =^..^=

DigiMan
07-18-2019, 11:56 AM
Well i do have a theory..i very dark theory actually...which tells that unpluging everything and re-plugin it might have worked
but i dont want t think about that honestly.Assuming that wasn't the case i think a "fried pin(if that makes sense)" on the connector that plugs to the printer side when closing the process unit?i cant really be sure because even know i dont know how the detection actually works..
If it was a moving part i would given it a second though on it getting pinched but nothing in that part is moving even when you take the damn thing out.

tulintron
07-19-2019, 01:49 PM
Well i do have a theory..i very dark theory actually...which tells that unpluging everything and re-plugin it might have worked
but i dont want t think about that honestly.Assuming that wasn't the case i think a "fried pin(if that makes sense)" on the connector that plugs to the printer side when closing the process unit?i cant really be sure because even know i dont know how the detection actually works..
If it was a moving part i would given it a second though on it getting pinched but nothing in that part is moving even when you take the damn thing out.As much knowledge as we have, every day we learn something. The interesting thing is the problem solved.

We start from the principle of the obvious things, but we can be surprised at some moments.


Congratulations.

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