General Firmware question

[tsbservice]

Hi Folks, I have some obscurity regarding Base and Special FWs.
Namely for older models, let say B224e for example, latest Base FW is from 2016.
After that there is like 20 newer Special FWs.
Do I have to keep machines with latest Special FWs, or may sit on latest Base if NO specific problems?
Also in therms of general security which FW version is better to be installed?
Waiting for your expert advice, KM tech support doesn't sound very clear on this.

[Synthohol]

Personally if there are no problems with the copier scanning faxing anything like that I leave the firmware alone if there's an issue that the firmware would fix yes I will upgrade it but being that you're not having any problems the special firmwares are strictly designed to fix specific issues not to be used as just general use the oldest adage I know is if it ain't broke don't fix it

[guitar9199]

Personally if there are no problems with the copier scanning faxing anything like that I leave the firmware alone if there's an issue that the firmware would fix yes I will upgrade it but being that you're not having any problems the special firmwares are strictly designed to fix specific issues not to be used as just general use the oldest adage I know is if it ain't broke don't fix it


Which is NOT to be confused with my late brother's "Rules For Construction"

Rule 1: Cut it large, then kick it into place.
Rule 2: If it ain't broke, you're not trying hard enough.
Rule 3: "Level and Plumb" aren't so much rules...as they are "Guidelines".
Rule 4: If you're always carrying something, the foreman won't find something for you to do.
Rule 5: Let the younger guys do the ladder work.
Rule 6: Let the skinny guys do the crawlspace work.
And finally... Rule 7: If it jams...FORCE it! If it breaks, it needed replacing anyway!


...I miss my little brother.

[bsm2]

If it ain't broke Don't FIX IT! (Don't Break IT) :cool::cool:

[tsbservice]

Which is NOT to be confused with my late brother's "Rules For Construction"

Rule 1: Cut it large, then kick it into place.
Rule 2: If it ain't broke, you're not trying hard enough.
Rule 3: "Level and Plumb" aren't so much rules...as they are "Guidelines".
Rule 4: If you're always carrying something, the foreman won't find something for you to do.
Rule 5: Let the younger guys do the ladder work.
Rule 6: Let the skinny guys do the crawlspace work.
And finally... Rule 7: If it jams...FORCE it! If it breaks, it needed replacing anyway!


...I miss my little brother.


If it ain't broke Don't FIX IT! (Don't Break IT) :cool::cool:


Thanks for your input. Anyway, I failed to see what it gives about my question.

[tech51]

Personally if there are no problems with the copier scanning faxing anything like that I leave the firmware alone if there's an issue that the firmware would fix yes I will upgrade it but being that you're not having any problems the special firmwares are strictly designed to fix specific issues not to be used as just general use the oldest adage I know is if it ain't broke don't fix it

Well there’s your answer right there!

Only use special firmware to fix specific issues. Otherwise use the latest mass release firmware available.

Always read the release notes for the firmware.

I don’t generally update firmware unless required.

The only exception at on at the moment is the new i models which are having many updates at present so I always do them.

[tsbservice]

Well there’s your answer right there!

Only use special firmware to fix specific issues. Otherwise use the latest mass release firmware available.

Always read the release notes for the firmware.

I don’t generally update firmware unless required.

The only exception at on at the moment is the new i models which are having many updates at present so I always do them.

Thanks for your opinion, though exclamation mark is a bit unnecessary.

1. I read and still think over what Synthohol answered as he is the one of first members here from who I expect and wait for opinion.
2. I always read(if possible) BEFORE take actions especially FW updates.
3. For example: Bizhub C258

Latest Base FW G00-W4

Special Firmwares AFTER latest Base version:
- GC1-W4 38 Fixed issues
- GC2-W4 40 Fixed issues
- GPA-V1 87 features(countermeasures) are included
- GP2-W4 128 features(countermeasures) are included

I truly understand the concept behind "if it works don't fix it", just not convinced enough how I will proceed at the moment.
Any other thoughts on this subject are Welcome and are much appreciated.

[copier tech]

Hi Folks, I have some obscurity regarding Base and Special FWs.
Namely for older models, let say B224e for example, latest Base FW is from 2016.
After that there is like 20 newer Special FWs.
Do I have to keep machines with latest Special FWs, or may sit on latest Base if NO specific problems?
Also in therms of general security which FW version is better to be installed?
Waiting for your expert advice, KM tech support doesn't sound very clear on this.

I update all may machines when each firmware is released this is important as keeping the fw upto date prevents future issue before they arise!

The key to being a good engineer is to carry out a PM (Preventative maintenance) each time to attend a call out.

You can also upgrade to the latest function version, so good features enabled AirPrint being the main one that springs to mind.

[copier tech]

If it ain't broke Don't FIX IT! (Don't Break IT) :cool::cool:

This Is like saying well my car ain't broke so i'm not taking it for a service!

[tech51]

I update all may machines when each firmware is released this is important as keeping the fw upto date prevents future issue before they arise!

The key to being a good engineer is to carry out a PM (Preventative maintenance) each time to attend a call out.

You can also upgrade to the latest function version, so good features enabled AirPrint being the main one that springs to mind.

I disagree with this.

The key to being a good engineer is to be aware of potential issues and take appropriate action.

If you are running any form of solution on the device such as safeq, paper cut etc, you have to be careful with firmware updates as some can prevent solutions from running.

I’ve seen updates that introduced more problems than they cured!

Everyone has their own opinion but as an engineer with 37 years experience I will always leave firmware as it is until required.

I have found this to be the best policy for me.

No more comments from me on this issue.

[Synthohol]

This Is like saying well my car ain't broke so i'm not taking it for a service!




Preventive maintain is one thing but since you are talking cars you wouldn't replace the tires if the tread is fine and balanced.

[blackcat4866]

It only takes once, updating the firmware ... just because, then discovering 3 or 4 days later that every machine you updated no longer transmits faxes any more. There for a while when we only carried one brand, we would run all new firmware releases on the in-house machines for a week to see if any bugs arose. IMHO you are just as likely to introduce a new issue, as to solve an old issue. I like to have a good reason to update firmware, then sure. =^..^=

[copyman]

[QUOTE=copier tech;793765]This Is like saying well my car ain't broke so i'm not taking it for a service!


Agree, if no issues leave well enough alone! after 40+ yrs in this business I've learned "not" to create more work for myself. Over the years I've tried to do everything by the book but have found most of it to cause more work so hardly ever look at serv manuals. Add the poor translation from Jap to Eng makes things worse. I use to automatically update firmware when I bought an off lease machine to resell, but after updating a perfectly good machine and it made machine inoperable I decided to leave F/W alone until absolutely necessary!

If you are having an issue look up that exact symptom on Kon/Min Knowledge base and / or All Solutions, 2nd check special F/W. If nothing listed for that symptom I go ahead and install latest F/W, even if it already has the latest installed. If someone don't have access to Kon/Min a lot of stuff can be found on google / youtube. Don't think you can get Firmware that easily on the internet but a lot of good info like fixes, codes, etc.

I recently posted another firmware question about something I can never get a straight answer on. Does the "latest" "special" F/W have ALL the prior fixes on it or just for that one issue?

[bsm2]

[QUOTE=copier tech;793765]This Is like saying well my car ain't broke so i'm not taking it for a service!


Agree, if no issues leave well enough alone! after 40+ yrs in this business I've learned "not" to create more work for myself. Over the years I've tried to do everything by the book but have found most of it to cause more work so hardly ever look at serv manuals. Add the poor translation from Jap to Eng makes things worse. I use to automatically update firmware when I bought an off lease machine to resell, but after updating a perfectly good machine and it made machine inoperable I decided to leave F/W alone until absolutely necessary!

If you are having an issue look up that exact symptom on Kon/Min Knowledge base and / or All Solutions, 2nd check special F/W. If nothing listed for that symptom I go ahead and install latest F/W, even if it already has the latest installed. If someone don't have access to Kon/Min a lot of stuff can be found on google / youtube. Don't think you can get Firmware that easily on the internet but a lot of good info like fixes, codes, etc.

I recently posted another firmware question about something I can never get a straight answer on. Does the "latest" "special" F/W have ALL the prior fixes on it or just for that one issue?



Special F/W is just that it usually ONLY fixes the problem you are having. Once installed you need to take notice if another tech updates F/W with regular update your problem most likely will return.

[tech51]

I recently posted another firmware question about something I can never get a straight answer on. Does the "latest" "special" F/W have ALL the prior fixes on it or just for that one issue?[/QUOTE]

Short answer, no.

Special firmware is just that. A special fix for a specific problem and doesn’t have generally have previous fixes in it.

They generally have a few special fixes released as they find issues, and then eventually release a mass firmware update which should (in theory at least)contain all the previous updates.

[blackcat4866]

That is correct. Special firmware is the latest Basic Firmware + a repair to a specific problem. If you don't have the specific problem, use the last Basic Firmware. =^..^=

[copier tech]

Preventive maintain is one thing but since you are talking cars you wouldn't replace the tires if the tread is fine and balanced.

I replace feed tyres before they are worn out same with my car.

[adecanmin]

The base firmware is sometimes a couple of years old versus the special that is sometimes only a month old. So if you install a special firmware that fixes a particular problem: 6 months later there is a new special that fixes another particular problem. You install that one. You'll are saying the new special may remove the fix from the previous one. Does not may sense.

[Synaux]

That is correct. Special firmware is the latest Basic Firmware + a repair to a specific problem. If you don't have the specific problem, use the last Basic Firmware. =^..^=

This is how I always assumed it was organized. But due to the extreme lack of [pertinent] information from KM, I always install the latest base FW then the special (if needed). It is never stated (that I have seen) that the newer special firmware includes its predecessors' fixes--that being the newest special FW replaces the old special FW.

I fail to understand why KM simply doesn't combine the special FWs into the base FW. This is an extremely lazy practice and creates a convoluted and often confusing ordeal for techs.

[guitar9199]

Thanks for your input. Anyway, I failed to see what it gives about my question.

I defer to Synth on this one....

I was just attempting to entertain.

[tech51]

This is how I always assumed it was organized. But due to the extreme lack of [pertinent] information from KM, I always install the latest base FW then the special (if needed). It is never stated (that I have seen) that the newer special firmware includes its predecessors' fixes--that being the newest special FW replaces the old special FW.

I fail to understand why KM simply doesn't combine the special FWs into the base FW. This is an extremely lazy practice and creates a convoluted and often confusing ordeal for techs.

There is an explanation. Just search for Zeus - Minerva Product FW code explanation on the Knova database if you have access to it.

[tsbservice]

​​
I defer to Synth on this one....

I was just attempting to entertain.
You've got your points...I have some answers to think about, now that's fine.
It is a part of best practises(Always Outnumbered Never Outgunned) I make for myself.

[Synaux]

There is an explanation. Just search for Zeus - Minerva Product FW code explanation on the Knova database if you have access to it.

Hmmm, that is interesting. However, even if there is a good explanation, I doubt I will appreciate it very much.
I no longer have access KM's highly confidential documents, firmware, etc :(
Want to share your username and pass? :p