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kenpio
11-01-2019, 09:39 PM
Howdy Folks,

I have a couple of these C454e machines that are eating cyan developer units. One machine just yesterday has only 9000 copies on the unit. I replaced the drum and developer previous to this change. I just sent them back to KM for their YPP. When I take out the unit there is not a brush on the mag roller, seems to be all gone? The waste toner box is a little heavy, so I think that it is going in there. The one machine that I was just at yesterday has over 1 million on it and the other one has not quite a million. One has G00-K2 and the other has G20-M1. Just throwing that out there, because the cyan developers are always backordered.

Thanks
KEN

darkocg88
11-01-2019, 09:41 PM
They run out of toner, keep printing, machine uses dev, very metallic printouts tho.

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk

copier addict
11-01-2019, 09:43 PM
Make sure the other drums are not way past yield. Drums of another colour can cause this symptom if they are too old.

kenpio
11-01-2019, 09:48 PM
Here is a sample of the half tone cyan.

kenpio
11-01-2019, 09:50 PM
None of the other drums or developers are over life. They are about half way through their nice little life. :)

Synthohol
11-01-2019, 10:13 PM
have you tried replacing the toner seals?

blackcat4866
11-02-2019, 01:32 AM
On a bizhub C658 I had a bad HVT that consumed developer in seconds. I'd install the cyan developing unit and with 10 seconds it was empty. =^..^=

tsbservice
11-02-2019, 07:18 AM
Here is a sample of the half tone cyan.

Corkscrew output, check:
- other consumables over life
- HVT or HVT contacts leak
- clogged filters
There were some bulletins here in other topics, maybe copyman posted them, as I don't have them handy.

copier tech
11-02-2019, 11:56 AM
Corkscrew output, check:
- other consumables over life
- HVT or HVT contacts leak
- clogged filters
There were some bulletins here in other topics, maybe copyman posted them, as I don't have them handy.

We've been facing this on multiple machines for years always cyan dev that gets depleted.

All drums, transfer belt & filters new, remaining devs well in life replaced cyan dev unit after a few thousand dev is depleted again.

Seen it on the C452/C552 & all the 4 series machines not yet on the 8 series so there is hope!

tsbservice
11-02-2019, 02:26 PM
We've been facing this on multiple machines for years always cyan dev that gets depleted.

All drums, transfer belt & filters new, remaining devs well in life replaced cyan dev unit after a few thousand dev is depleted again.

Seen it on the C452/C552 & all the 4 series machines not yet on the 8 series so there is hope!


What about HVT lines on these. Did you check contacts for evidence of arcing? That can be tricky fo trace.

copier tech
11-02-2019, 05:57 PM
What about HVT lines on these. Did you check contacts for evidence of arcing? That can be tricky fo trace.


Nothing obvious print quality is perfect if the hvt was failing I'd expect to see a quality issue.

3ktlc
11-04-2019, 07:36 PM
We have had issues with the cyan developer units also. Just had 3 go bad last week. All less than 10k on them

copyman
11-04-2019, 10:05 PM
Search this forum for "4" series developer. I posted a konica minolta bulletin addressing Cyan & Magenta developer units crashing because of overlife consumables. Usually it's the same color drum but "ANY" other drum can cause a developer unit to crash. And even an overlife transfer belt or HV shorting out can cause developer failure but less common. It's usually the drum being way overlife. It's something we have to live with if we are going to turn off the end of life messages! Still think you are way head of the game even if you have to buy a new dev unit.

vedder
11-05-2019, 09:26 AM
I am currently facing this problem, machine going through cyan dev units, customer has always replaced consumables when required, all tcr readings are correct, the last time i went I replaced dev unit, hv board, all contacts to all dev units, anything I could think of, problem returned within weeks. We have a fair few Konica`s out there and only come across this twice, both machines were very high milage machines, nearly 2 million clicks, heavy coverage and heavy stock, thats the only link I can find between them. Its obviously a known cyan issue because if you buy a unit online, the cyan dev is a lot more expensive than any of the other colours.

I have spoken to Konica regarding this and the response was "try a hv board, that might work" :mad:

copyman
11-05-2019, 01:08 PM
I am currently facing this problem, machine going through cyan dev units, customer has always replaced consumables when required, all tcr readings are correct, the last time i went I replaced dev unit, hv board, all contacts to all dev units, anything I could think of, problem returned within weeks. We have a fair few Konica`s out there and only come across this twice, both machines were very high milage machines, nearly 2 million clicks, heavy coverage and heavy stock, thats the only link I can find between them. Its obviously a known cyan issue because if you buy a unit online, the cyan dev is a lot more expensive than any of the other colours.

I have spoken to Konica regarding this and the response was "try a hv board, that might work" :mad:

First advice is never ask Kon/Min for tech support. They will always tell you it's a bad board when 99% of the time it's not! When you call them they pull up the same knowledge base that you can do if you are a dealer. Only difference is they start at the bottom of the troubleshooting chart blaming a bad board.

Anyway about your problem, using "genuine" toner? New transfer belt? Since high milage machines it could be many things but you have covered most of them. Sounds like you are a Kon/Min dealer if you were able to call/access the knowledge base, if so search for C454 dev units. There are several bulletins addressing this.
Would also look closely at and replace the HV wiring, one of the bulletins addresses this.

vedder
11-05-2019, 02:24 PM
First advice is never ask Kon/Min for tech support. They will always tell you it's a bad board when 99% of the time it's not! When you call them they pull up the same knowledge base that you can do if you are a dealer. Only difference is they start at the bottom of the troubleshooting chart blaming a bad board.

Anyway about your problem, using "genuine" toner? New transfer belt? Since high milage machines it could be many things but you have covered most of them. Sounds like you are a Kon/Min dealer if you were able to call/access the knowledge base, if so search for C454 dev units. There are several bulletins addressing this.
Would also look closely at and replace the HV wiring, one of the bulletins addresses this.


Hi Copyman,

Yeah I only went thorough Konica as a matter of procedure, wasn`t convinced myself, but as this wasn`t the first time they had had this issue, I had to get Konica involved. I have trawled through all the threads/ bulletins regarding this issue and there doesn`t seem to be a definate solution, what seems to fix it for 1 person doesn`t for someone else, I have pretty much done all the things suggested regarding toner filtration, tcr level adjustments, hv wiring and what not.

The customer is using genuine toner, all units are within life, my only thought is now the belt, just because it`s within life doesn`t mean it`s perfect, looks ok, slight wear, is it enough to cause the problem? who knows, without throwing ANOTHER cyan dev unit and belt at it, we wont know.

It wouldnt be so bad if you could just get a bag of dev, pour in, fit some other bits and try again, but the price of a new dev unit everytime is ridiculous.

kenpio
11-05-2019, 02:28 PM
Thanks for all the responses. Just some input here. The drums and transfer belt and roller are way under the usage. Gas gauge is at about half to three quarters on all. There are no C-codes, just in the service mode I get the oil can that has a P-21, color alignment. I have had an 8 series, turn it on and it emptied the developer. These are over a month or two. I have returned the developers to KM under their YYP program, well the Cyan DV units are back ordered. I guess this might mean there may be a problem with these? Don't know?

Thanks
KEN

vedder
11-05-2019, 02:36 PM
Thanks for all the responses. Just some input here. The drums and transfer belt and roller are way under the usage. Gas gauge is at about half to three quarters on all. There are no C-codes, just in the service mode I get the oil can that has a P-21, color alignment. I have had an 8 series, turn it on and it emptied the developer. These are over a month or two. I have returned the developers to KM under their YYP program, well the Cyan DV units are back ordered. I guess this might mean there may be a problem with these? Don't know?

Thanks
KEN


There is definately a problem, its not a new thing, check out this thread it was started in 2014. Some people seem to have it more than others, like I say I`ve only come across it twice, 1st customer decieded to scrap it and get a new machine, the second customer is contemplating the same, so i`ve never come to a definate fix.

C224e/C284e/C364e/C454e/C545e cyan dev unit problems (https://www.copytechnet.com/forums/konica-minolta/94088-c224e-c284e-c364e-c454e-c545e-cyan-dev-unit-problems.html)

tsbservice
11-05-2019, 05:25 PM
​In that case I would go for:
A161R70211 HV Contact Assy - 1 for affected color or 4 for all colors
A161R70322 DV Contact Assy
Those are so cheap especially compared to ridiculous price of color Developer units plus visual inspection will not always show clear signs of arcing or bad contacts.

vedder
11-06-2019, 09:38 AM
​In that case I would go for:
A161R70211 HV Contact Assy - 1 for affected color or 4 for all colors
A161R70322 DV Contact Assy
Those are so cheap especially compared to ridiculous price of color Developer units plus visual inspection will not always show clear signs of arcing or bad contacts.


Hi tsbservice,

here is a list of what I replaced,

A5C1M40600 - high voltage board
A161R70322 - dv contact assy
A161R70211 - hv contact ass X4
A161N12P01 - charging wire k
A161N12N01 - charging wire c
A161N12M01 - charging wire m
A161N12K01 - charging wire y
Dv - 512c - cyan dev unit

We are obviously thinking along the same lines since you recommended what I actually fit, unfortunatly it didn`t work.

While I had the machine apart, everything was cleaned out (toner filter systems, filters) and visually checked over.

copyman
11-06-2019, 01:16 PM
Hi Copyman,


It wouldnt be so bad if you could just get a bag of dev, pour in, fit some other bits and try again, but the price of a new dev unit everytime is ridiculous.

Use new black developer units for colors. Just swap chips. Run 60 11x17 halftones of the color dev unit you are replacing, around 40 pages you will see the black changing to the color. After around 60 pages black will have changed to the color!

Also I've brought back many dev units that have crashed by adding developer from another bad unit until I get the proper TCR reading. Of course did this after replacing any overlife consumables that caused the dev crash in first place.

There is NO way I'm paying Kon/Min $500+ for a color dev unit !!! I'll buy an off lease working C224 for around $500 and get 4 dev units plus other parts before paying kon/min that kind of money !!!!

kingarthur
11-06-2019, 04:38 PM
have had a few cyan developer units sort themselves out, really weird, had the white marks across the page, took them out examined them, virtually nothing on the roller, couldn't go back for a week on one, when I went back with the new dev unit, thought I'd check the quality...it had recovered itself.....it's happened a few times, not only on cyan too

copyman
11-06-2019, 08:27 PM
have had a few cyan developer units sort themselves out, really weird, had the white marks across the page, took them out examined them, virtually nothing on the roller, couldn't go back for a week on one, when I went back with the new dev unit, thought I'd check the quality...it had recovered itself.....it's happened a few times, not only on cyan too

Yes the good thing with those dev units is they can recover "sometimes" because toner btl has new developer mixed in. Constant fresh developer is what keeps quality the same as the consumables age.

kenpio
11-23-2019, 02:42 PM
Okay folks,
Went to the customer on Monday of this week and changed the cyan developer, because it was gone. So I ordered the HV board and the toner subhopper and said that I would be back. I got there yesterday, 4 days later and the cyan developer was gone! I did change them both, but did not have the developer, it was the end of the day and did not go to the office to get one. The black drum and transfer belt are due to be changed. We are out of drums, as KM is having troubles keeping up with these things. I will give KM a call first thing on Monday to see what they say. Thanks for listening.

KEN

Rohullah
11-23-2019, 04:01 PM
Howdy Folks,

I have a couple of these C454e machines that are eating cyan developer units. One machine just yesterday has only 9000 copies on the unit. I replaced the drum and developer previous to this change. I just sent them back to KM for their YPP. When I take out the unit there is not a brush on the mag roller, seems to be all gone? The waste toner box is a little heavy, so I think that it is going in there. The one machine that I was just at yesterday has over 1 million on it and the other one has not quite a million. One has G00-K2 and the other has G20-M1. Just throwing that out there, because the cyan developers are always backordered.

Thanks
KEN

Try to charge dv unit with toner manually few times, i had this problem with 6500km. I had charged many times toner inside the dv, after that problem solved.

copier tech
11-24-2019, 10:25 AM
There is a new solution for this issue, blocked air flow see attached.

After you have replaced ALL image & developer units & the transfer unit if are over life vac out the suction area.


44129

blackcat4866
11-24-2019, 03:54 PM
There is a new solution for this issue, blocked air flow see attached.

After you have replaced ALL image & developer units & the transfer unit if are over life vac out the suction area.


44129

Wow! That looks like 3 hours of fun (and toner to the elbows). =^..^=

copyman
11-24-2019, 04:53 PM
FYI, you can have a bad drum even if consumable is not showing 0% life left. Now that these machines are 5+ yeras old so are the drums, etc. So on super low volume machines the drums can go bad, even if they were hardly used. Age takes a toll on drums, dev units, etc.
I'm a firm believer 40+ ppm machines consumables will yield many more pages if ran heavy, sometimes lasting 3 x's longer, where as the low volume machines when not run the way designed the consumables crap out early. High volume machines need to be run or you will have more service calls then normal. Just my experience over the years.

kenpio
12-05-2019, 08:14 PM
Just an update for this call. The black drum and the transfer belt were at 0%. So I replaced them and cleaned out the cyan air duct and that was a couple weeks ago. Called the customer and it is going okay. Did open a request with KM and I got a document that I will enclose that helped a little.

Thanks
KEN
44293

copier tech
12-05-2019, 08:36 PM
Wow! That looks like 3 hours of fun (and toner to the elbows). =^..^=

Don't need to take the the drive off just IU's, Devs & transfer out can then gain access to vac out.

kenpio
12-05-2019, 09:41 PM
Yea, just took the drums, developers and transfer belt and had access to the ducts and vacuumed them from the front. :)

EarthKmTech
12-07-2019, 12:09 AM
FYI - Cyan developers with black dot on the barcode labels are modified type to reduce the incidence of this problem. You should be doing all the usual stuff still, ie vacuuming out suction ports, ensureing all consumables are within life and damaged ones replaced, the cyan toner was shaken before installation, the toner filter is new, the drum is replaced with the developing unit - you can aditionally set CYAN TCR value to minus 1 or 2 as well. Also ensure suction port gaskets are not damaged on any of the 4 ports, a single one damaged and not sealing properly will cause no suction at all 4 - cyan will be destroyed continuously in any case on these ones.

jonbonse
08-05-2021, 11:50 AM
Use new black developer units for colors. Just swap chips. Run 60 11x17 halftones of the color dev unit you are replacing, around 40 pages you will see the black changing to the color. After around 60 pages black will have changed to the color!

Also I've brought back many dev units that have crashed by adding developer from another bad unit until I get the proper TCR reading. Of course did this after replacing any overlife consumables that caused the dev crash in first place.

There is NO way I'm paying Kon/Min $500+ for a color dev unit !!! I'll buy an off lease working C224 for around $500 and get 4 dev units plus other parts before paying kon/min that kind of money !!!!

Hi copyman...

If you were to put the cyan developer unit from a known working c224 into the c554e, would you need to reset the dev counter to run stabilization?

REGSIS
08-06-2021, 07:29 AM
Hi copyman...

If you were to put the cyan developer unit from a known working c224 into the c554e, would you need to reset the dev counter to run stabilization?

Dev counter could be reset only by replacing a chip, and I won't suggest doing that for an old dev unit. That is only counter, and you will have false life reading anyway resetting it or not.
Don't worry, TCR sensor will measure toner density in dev unit and will be adding toner accordingly in the future.

Run stabilization and check table number and level history 1&2 values.

Doing gradation won't hurt also.

REGSIS
10-15-2021, 07:45 AM
Got to share this one.....

Few days ago I completely recovered a cyan dev unit with no visible developer on magnet roller. On my surprise magnet roller was covered with a very thin layer of toner but it was so pale that I thought that unit could't be recovered.
Surprisingly no P codes before and during repair was recorded.

And I saved it.....
I replaced ozone filter and vacum all excessive cyan toner on sides of dev unit and suction ports. Clean dusted charge unit from cyan drum unit (90k).
Run stabilization and get 15% Tcr C and Vdc 130V giving the code C2552.
Of course toner level was not so high; developer was under level.
Then I run halftones 64 full A3 letting the new toner with developer in dev unit to increase developer level.
First output was pale with random cyan dots and smears. Gradually TCR ratio was lowering and VdcC was rising. Running stabilization after every 6-10 pages.At TCR 12% I started running halftones 128 (output was much better) an finaly under 10% change to halftones 255.
Final result was TCR 6% and VdcC 280V (jut like a new one).
Pulled out dev unit and magnet roller was completely covered with developer. It took about 60 A3 in total.
This was the worst one.
Still, it is not clear to me how so little developer from the toner bottle could repair such damage.
Maybe I was lucky but I will try the same next time to see if it was luck or a way of recovery.

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