PDA

View Full Version : C1085 duplex registration issue after 15 sheets


Custom Search


dagoof
12-01-2019, 05:25 PM
Got a strange one on a c1085 - the image is slipping out of registration predominantly on the trailing edge (both sides) when duplexing. It happens almost bang on after 15 sheets give or take, never an issue with the first dozen or so. If I run batches of 15 sheets it's fine, with only a few seconds in between batches.
It doesn't happen when running simplex. Sporadically the issue doesn't happen at all (perhaps when the machine's been running for several hours).

Anyone got any thoughts? Spoke to some who said they didn't think the registration roller would be a factor but I'm not sure :confused:

dagoof
01-16-2020, 04:21 PM
Anyone care to throw their hat in on this? Still got me stumped!

Toxic
01-16-2020, 04:58 PM
Are you tech or end user?
Did you try something before to solve that problem?

tsbservice
01-16-2020, 05:32 PM
Of course he is a tech with that nice little badge Still learning... ;)
Imho every reliable tech should anchor on that motto.

@dagoof, will upload some docs in few minutes, check your PM.
Please, bear in mind I'm not a production guy, so articles may be somewhat or completely irrelevant.

methogod
01-17-2020, 04:34 AM
what's the meter?
stock?

which way is it shifting?

dagoof
01-17-2020, 10:11 AM
Big thanks to Tsb :)

Methogod - The machine's got a fairly high meter (6m). This was using a 300gsm silk stock.
The CMYK was slipping out of registration horizontally in the direction of travel (leading to trailing), I'll try getting a couple of pics.

methogod
01-18-2020, 12:33 PM
would think registration assy, at 6m. was it replaced at all?

dagoof
09-10-2020, 01:42 PM
Hi Methogod, we replaced the whole reg assembly but it's not really helped (it now pulls the reg back after slippage but will continue to fall out of registration on a cycle of 10-15 sheets).

What would you suggest next? :confused:

BOTOY
09-10-2020, 10:15 PM
Hi,
I think this is no a mechanical issue. Can you reset the machine in factory setting, then make un new print/side setting?
Could you take some picture?

Synthohol
09-10-2020, 10:49 PM
does it behave if regular 75-80 gm2 paper is used?
does the tray being used matter?
have you tried the paper through the bypass (if installed or accessible)
jig the door interlocks and watch the edge of the paper as it passes and look for drift.
if drifting check for even tension on every hard roller(s) in the paper path.

blackcat4866
09-11-2020, 01:14 AM
Big thanks to Tsb :)

Methogod - The machine's got a fairly high meter (6m). This was using a 300gsm silk stock.
The CMYK was slipping out of registration horizontally in the direction of travel (leading to trailing), I'll try getting a couple of pics.

This is the maximum media weight AND glossy. I would be very surprised if it didn't have color registration issues. If you drop the gsm to 280 the problem will disappear. =^..^=

dagoof
09-11-2020, 03:23 PM
Thanks all for the replies :D

Blackcat - tried 280gsm silk, it's the same. 225gsm doesn't seem to be effected. However, it worked ok previously with the 300gsm stocks.

Synthol - have tried a 225gsm gloss and it works ok. Tray doesn't seem to matter (tried 2 & 3 from PFU, no bypass).
There is almost never a reg issue running simplex, so I'm pretty sure there's no major drift from PFU, this seems to be primarily limited to duplexing.
It tends to effect the mid-to-bottom of the sheet (trailing edge rather than leading edge).

Botoy - Yes, I'll get pictures. Is there anything specific I could try resetting before a reset on the whole machine?

46755

dagoof
10-01-2020, 05:26 PM
Could anyone suggest anything? I'm guessing it's a mechanical issue in the ADU (i.e. rubbers worn)?

Toxic
10-01-2020, 08:54 PM
You said 225gsm is ok,no problem?
Did you try to trick machine and set up 225gsm and acctually put 300gsm into the tray and check does it have same problem.

dagoof
10-04-2020, 08:24 PM
Hi toxic, I tried cheating it at 225 setting but got the same result: first 12-15 sheets ok, then 7 bad before it self corrects, then 7 good, 7 bad etc on loop (give or take).

Toxic
10-04-2020, 09:13 PM
Done this when registration unit replaced?


Note
• When you install a new registration unit [1], configure
DIPSW10-2 to "1". (Refer to DIPSW10-2)
• The label [2] is placed on a new registration unit [1].
Change the configuration of DIPSW44-4, DIPSW44-5, and
DIPSW44-6 according to the number that is marked on the
label [2]. (Refer to DIPSW44-4, DIPSW44-5, and
DIPSW44-6)
• When the configuration of DIPSW is not changed, the
paper possibly gets creased.

dagoof
10-05-2020, 10:46 AM
Thanks Toxic - I had set the 10:2 DIPSW, however, it would appear the replacement reg unit sent was for a 6085 (presumed to be compatible?).
The previous unit had no existing label, the new unit was labelled "5". Would there be any other identifier from the previous unit?

Toxic
10-05-2020, 01:07 PM
It is the same parts for C6085 and C1085
I think you should change dipsw anyway,it is not noted for nothing in SM.


Default setting at the registration unit
replacement
· Function: When you install a new registration
unit, you need to change the installation position
correction value of the paper skew sensor. This
DIPSW configures the correction value.
· Usage: A label is pasted on a new registration
unit. Change this configuration according to the
number that is marked on the label.
Note
· When you install a new registration unit,
configure DIPSW10-2 to "1".
·

±0 (When the number of the
label is 0): 44-6=0, 44-5=0,
44-4=0
• -5 (When the number of the
label is -1 to -5): 44-6=0,
44-5=0, 44-4=1
• -10 (When the number of the
label is -6 to -10): 44-6=0,
44-5=1, 44-4=0
• -15 (When the number of the
label is -11 to -15): 44-6=0,
44-5=1, 44-4=1
• +5 (When the number of the
label is +1 to +5): 44-6=1,
44-5=0, 44-4=0
• +10 (When the number of the
label is +6 to +10): 44-6=1,
44-5=0, 44-4=1
• +15 (When the number of the
label is +11 to +15): 44-6=1,
44-5=1, 44-4=0
• +20 (When the number of the
label is +16 to +20): 44-6=1,
44-5=1, 44-4=1

wjurls
10-05-2020, 09:58 PM
Maybe a bad Conveyance Drive Board? M58 (registration motor) is driven by the CDB. When the motor control chips on these boards go bad, they tend to slow the motors down as the chip heats up.

wjurls
10-05-2020, 10:07 PM
Replying to my own answer. I didn't see the picture before showing color reg is off. Try setting the second transfer pressure from auto to low in the paper settings.

Synthohol
10-05-2020, 10:52 PM
sorry if i missed it, have you stopped the image before 2nd transfer and see if its on the belt like that? or the drum?
if yes then it has nothing to do with 2nd transfer or the paper itself (directly) right? or im having a pre-senior moment
and its down to laser/drum timing then which are affected by electronic adjustment settings and W&T of course.
if you dont mind my .02, personally i would grab the initial setup manual and run through all the adjustments as if it came out of the box.

have you swapped drums and dv units around? (just tape up the hole in the DV unit and leave the toner door open so it wont add any toner) and run the same job
does the issue stay with the units or their color slots? this way you rule out some physical parts for free. [/.02]

Toxic
10-05-2020, 11:23 PM
Good point there Synthohol ,agree with that logic.

dagoof
10-06-2020, 05:10 PM
Thanks Synthohol, I hadn't but it makes sense to try first!

How would I best stop the image before 2nd transfer (when it only appears after 15 or so sheets)?

tulintron
10-07-2020, 03:17 PM
Thanks Synthohol, I hadn't but it makes sense to try first!

How would I best stop the image before 2nd transfer (when it only appears after 15 or so sheets)?Because it was intermittent or random, I discarded the logical or electronic part. I would definitely think of something mechanical. The image on the transfer bel will certainly be the same as on the sheet.

There is a topic for a C1085 C1100 printer C 4661 Misspass colors and Error 2 (https://www.copytechnet.com/forums/konica-minolta/151603-c1100-printer-c-4661-misspass-colors-error-2-a.html) with a problem similar to yours. I believe that both have the same cause.


The belt may slip at some point in the ITU, causing the colors to fail to collect. I've seen cases like this, so I insist on saying that. The rollers inside the ITU must be in good condition. Otherwise, the belt will slip and cause registration errors. Perhaps the tension of the springs, an inner roller outside the perfect conditions of use. It would be nice to get another ITU for testing.


Good luck. Keep us informed.

dagoof
10-07-2020, 03:52 PM
Thanks for the detailed response Tulintron. The ITB rollers are approaching end-of-life, however, am I right in saying because the jobs run ok on simplex, it would rule out ITB issues?
This is specifically a duplexing issue.

I do have a spare ITB unit for testing, however, it has issues of it's own (it leaves a large block on the middle of the belt where it doesn't write the image at all!).

Synthohol
10-07-2020, 04:21 PM
i'd swap the belt. free process of elimination.

dagoof
10-07-2020, 04:36 PM
Just the belt Synthohol? Can do, though it's only done 250k.

tulintron
10-07-2020, 05:42 PM
Thanks for the detailed response Tulintron. The ITB rollers are approaching end-of-life, however, am I right in saying because the jobs run ok on simplex, it would rule out ITB issues?
This is specifically a duplexing issue.

I do have a spare ITB unit for testing, however, it has issues of it's own (it leaves a large block on the middle of the belt where it doesn't write the image at all!).Can you do other tests?

Duplex Top Bind and Left Bind =?
Duplex 1 to N and N to 1 =?
Duplex Size 13x19 and 8 1/2 x 11 =?
Duplex Tray 1 to Tray 5 =?
Duplex Paper Type Plain to Coated MO =?
Duplex Paper Weight 64g / m to 300g / m =?


I also suggest rewriting the firmware.

dagoof
10-08-2020, 08:09 PM
I'm pretty sure it must be a parts/mechical failure (or wear) Tulintron, given that it previously duplexed the stock in question ok?
I get the same result from other PFU trays. (the lighter & uncoated stocks are without fault).

dagoof
12-13-2020, 12:23 PM
Hi all. So this registration problem has spread to the simplex printing now.

It goes through Auto colour registration adj without issue and doesn't code when running, however.
As previously noted, the registation assembly unit was replaced, I also just tried replacing the transfer belt (even though only at 50% life) but it was the exact same.

As previously mentioned, the transfer rollers are at end of life, so I guess they'd be next?
I did notice the aluminium hard rollers in the transfer unit were deeply scored on one side (the secondary cleaning unit on the transfer belt had picked up a ton of schwarf) so that could be a likely cause?
Not sure what would cause such substantial scoring under the belt!?

mincabenj
08-29-2021, 11:17 PM
How do I work with bigquery?

lartis.aineias
02-01-2022, 08:20 PM
Hi all. So this registration problem has spread to the simplex printing now.

It goes through Auto colour registration adj without issue and doesn't code when running, however.
As previously noted, the registation assembly unit was replaced, I also just tried replacing the transfer belt (even though only at 50% life) but it was the exact same.

As previously mentioned, the transfer rollers are at end of life, so I guess they'd be next?
I did notice the aluminium hard rollers in the transfer unit were deeply scored on one side (the secondary cleaning unit on the transfer belt had picked up a ton of schwarf) so that could be a likely cause?
Not sure what would cause such substantial scoring under the belt!?Hi
I have exactly the same problem on c6085.
4M clicks
Tr.Belt life an 1st + 2nd transfer rollers they have 250k.
I try to clean belt assy , registration assy 2nd transfer assy , I change transfer belt motor and the problem remains.
did you find the problem?

Thanks

Στάλθηκε από το AC2003 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk

lartis.aineias
02-01-2022, 08:36 PM
Hi
I have exactly the same problem on c6085.
4M clicks
Tr.Belt life an 1st + 2nd transfer rollers they have 250k.
I try to clean belt assy , registration assy 2nd transfer assy , I change transfer belt motor and the problem remains.
did you find the problem?

Thanks

Στάλθηκε από το AC2003 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalksome samples517795178051781

Στάλθηκε από το AC2003 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk

Custom Search