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schmeckles22
07-08-2020, 02:47 PM
Hello,

I want to know what is happening here as I am about to do a chargeback on PayPal.
I bought a machine from eBay last year (C284e) all was good and it lasted 4-5 months and I started to see lines on my prints. I went to the same company and bought another £600 machine and I am now in the same position with a faulty printer with lines down the page and graduation is not great.

When I received this second machine the drum units were on 0% and the seller said they changed the chips on them? But the date on the right says 2015 which I assume is the installation date?

I spoke to the seller and they are not happy that I want a refund after 4 months, which if I'm honest does seem a long time but for a machine that was sold as 80% consumables I'd expect much more life out of it considering I do around 5,000 pages a month, so technically I have only done around 20k pages.

robinsonad86
07-08-2020, 03:16 PM
Hello,

I want to know what is happening here as I am about to do a chargeback on PayPal.
I bought a machine from eBay last year (C284e) all was good and it lasted 4-5 months and I started to see lines on my prints. I went to the same company and bought another £600 machine and I am now in the same position with a faulty printer with lines down the page and graduation is not great.

When I received this second machine the drum units were on 0% and the seller said they changed the chips on them? But the date on the right says 2015 which I assume is the installation date?

I spoke to the seller and they are not happy that I want a refund after 4 months, which if I'm honest does seem a long time but for a machine that was sold as 80% consumables I'd expect much more life out of it considering I do around 5,000 pages a month, so technically I have only done around 20k pages.

Hi Schmeckless22

If you would like a second opinion on this machine to give an independent report back to your supplier please let me know. I am fully KM trained and work for an accredited KM dealer. If these machines are not fit for purpose I could also quote you for more suitable machines feel free to reply here or PM me

emujo2
07-08-2020, 03:32 PM
If they re chipped them, the consumables would be showing 100% - whatever you have run. That being said, re chipping does nothing other than lying to the machine and saying "you have a new consumable". The machine is now applying any needed correction values based on a new consumable. My advice would be to run away from anyone that boasts that they have re chipped the units.

I know the display has changed over the years, but the consumables should be showing a percentage remaining and the estimated date of exhaustion. Not sure if the gas gages go from right to left or vice versa. I think you might as well drop your drawers on this one..E

Bix
07-08-2020, 03:59 PM
Probably they are decommissioned printers, without being reconditioned and sold off to avoid being taken to landfill.

emujo2
07-08-2020, 04:39 PM
I know we talked about this in another thread...may be the same poster..When these machines come back off a 3-5 year lease, they are nothing more than junk to the vendors, a small pecentage may be able to be refurbed and sold, and some can be used for salvage, but any that do not have to go back to the leasing company get wholesaled to private companies..They get invited to look at the machines and offer a bid..It's not much more than what it waould cost to truck them to a landfill, but the wholesellers won't even bid if there isn't something worth it in the pile..So they may get 100 5 year old machines and may be able to re-sell 15% of these, but their profits are skyhigh, as they are not putting 1 dime in before they are sold. Nothing more than a blast of compressed air and a quick wipe down. E

copyman
07-08-2020, 06:19 PM
I buy off lease machines all the time. I buy low meter machines and they are great! Make a lot of profit and customer saves a lot of money. Everyone happy.

As for your problem I don't think you are entitled to any refund. You bought a $600 machine. If it needs a drum, etc you are still way ahead with what you paid. Think your mistake is you are buying high meter machines. If you want all good consumables pay more for low meter machine. I look at it this way, if you buy a used car with high mileage you are responsible for maintaining it.

If you knew what the meters were and you bought the machine why do you think you deserve a refund? If I was the seller I would never refund your money!

mga
07-08-2020, 06:38 PM
If you bought on ebay for £600 that's a far price for that machine remember if the say the the is fully refurbished it can't be if it was they be selling for more like £1800 as cost of all the drums, dev units, fuser etc and most dealers rechip drums and dev units because of cost if parts are replaced when 1st due you would never get copy quality problems.

Just call a credited engineer and replace parts as and when needed only oem

tsbservice
07-08-2020, 06:50 PM
I buy off lease machines all the time. I buy low meter machines and they are great! Make a lot of profit and customer saves a lot of money. Everyone happy.

As for your problem I don't think you are entitled to any refund. You bought a $600 machine. If it needs a drum, etc you are still way ahead with what you paid. Think your mistake is you are buying high meter machines. If you want all good consumables pay more for low meter machine. I look at it this way, if you buy a used car with high mileage you are responsible for maintaining it.

If you knew what the meters were and you bought the machine why do you think you deserve a refund? If I was the seller I would never refund your money!

Agree.

Also seen this posted before, maybe somebody(company) trying to ruin competition reputation :confused:
I'm very close to RC topic starter it's just wasted real techs time.

allan
07-08-2020, 06:55 PM
What shady copier reseller? No really, would never have guessed.:eek:

emujo2
07-08-2020, 07:31 PM
You know, the fact that he went back to the same company and paid another 600 pounds is pretty telling in itself..Fool me once shame on you....

Phil B.
07-08-2020, 07:34 PM
You know, the fact that he went back to the same company and paid another 600 pounds is pretty telling in itself..Fool me once shame on you....

that was my quandary also.

that'd be like remarrying an ex wife that stole from you and cheated on you.

wjurls
07-08-2020, 09:53 PM
So you want a refund because the guy you bought the 600 pound machine from didn't throw in 600 pounds in drum units?
Even though it was fine for 4 months? I don't even warranty a new machine for 4 months. Consumables are NEVER covered under a warranty.

Phil B.
07-08-2020, 11:18 PM
So you want a refund because the guy you bought the 600 pound machine from didn't throw in 600 pounds in drum units?
Even though it was fine for 4 months? I don't even warranty a new machine for 4 months. Consumables are NEVER covered under a warranty.We get some people bitching like the OP.
Like someone mentioned what type of warranty do you expect on a clunker used car?

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Bix
07-09-2020, 07:55 AM
I agree with you only on one condition: if there was no refurbished printer in the ad, then you are all right. If you put me a refurbished printer (so you have replaced the consumables, otherwise it is not refurbished .. you have perhaps only cleaned it), you have cheated me. Besides, I pretend to know whether it used OEM or aftermarket. Whatever the selling price was.

If the new drum says to make at least 100k, it cannot make 10k (unless the customer has done something wrong). In fact, the customer has to prove that the printer has been treated well and this is complicated. In my country, 1 year warranty on second handsecond hand is mandatory. The customer must find the defect within 6 months to be considered valid.

If the seller has specified that the consumables have not been replaced, then the customer must first consider the counters and make his own conclusions. In this case, it cannot claim replacement of consumables. For this reason we prefer only the rental of used printers and not the sale. If you rent and there is some serious problem, you can always replace the printer and do whatever you want to not lose money and have a happy customer.

emujo2
07-09-2020, 03:33 PM
If the seller says "your consumables are new", but only re chipped them I think he has a legit gripe..If the machine was sold "as is" then he's out of luck..But, if it was me, I would be making a really big stink about it and try to make him lose business. E

Oystercopy
07-09-2020, 11:11 PM
Nothing wrong with chipping units, as long as there's more life to be had on the consumables. If you think about, it, all the KMs have built-in programming to allow the units to go past their life, so why would this be an issue? The problem is, somebody bought something off eBay and had NO GUARANTEES whatsoever to the condition, but only spent $600 (I know his statement was in "lbs" not dollars, but same/same). If someone buys a higher end machine online, only pays a pittance for it, then expects longevity out of it, THAT'S where the problem lies! I call this ENTITLEMENT and see it happen every day! All you can do is laugh at people like that and move on...

OC

copyman
07-09-2020, 11:18 PM
If the seller says "your consumables are new", but only re chipped them I think he has a legit gripe..If the machine was sold "as is" then he's out of luck..But, if it was me, I would be making a really big stink about it and try to make him lose business. E

If I was buying a machine for $600 and the seller told me it had new supplies I would run away. It's just common sense there would be no way someone could make money putting all new supplies and selling for $600.

As for the original poster, buy all less expensive black drums and put color chips on them. I only use chips when doing this or when I rebuild a drum unit. I don't chip used drums, only turn off messages and replace when issue like lines, etc. When you chip a used drum the voltages, etc are reset when machine thinks it's a new drum. This can cause issues.

Gift
07-10-2020, 08:02 AM
Probably a case of "you get what you've paid for"...

On the other hand there is no need in bluffing the customers and causing false illusions by resetting/chipping any units. Better leave it as it is and disable life stop. Copyman described the side effects.....

copyman
07-10-2020, 01:35 PM
Nothing wrong with chipping units, as long as there's more life to be had on the consumables. If you think about, it, all the KMs have built-in programming to allow the units to go past their life, so why would this be an issue? The problem is, somebody bought something off eBay and had NO GUARANTEES whatsoever to the condition, but only spent $600 (I know his statement was in "lbs" not dollars, but same/same). If someone buys a higher end machine online, only pays a pittance for it, then expects longevity out of it, THAT'S where the problem lies! I call this ENTITLEMENT and see it happen every day! All you can do is laugh at people like that and move on...

OC

Why chip the units and reset the voltages, etc with an overlife drum? Just turn off the messages and run until a quality issue.

emujo2
07-10-2020, 02:17 PM
Everyone of these consumables has a life limit. All of us know that some consumables will go well past this limit w/o any noticeable adverse affects so many of the vendors put in software to allow the units to run last their life limits. But, KM does not do this by electronically saying "you have a new item, go ahead with your day'. If the item is over count by 125% the device controller is aware and continues making CQ decisions based on the true life count. Re chipping resets the counts w/o replacing the unit, so now you have a controller making decisons based on what it has been told..I am now applying changes based on this new item that in reality has gone past it's limit. I don't care how many techs do this, it's not my problem, I do not and would never recommend buying anything that has been re chipped.

Don N.
07-10-2020, 05:22 PM
At first glance I was hoping this was a dealer buying wholesale and telling everyone what a shady outfit EBU - EQUIPMENT BROKERS UNLIMITED IS. !!!

If I had the time I would be suing them and apparently had I researched a bit more first, I would see we are not alone.

Sold us two 7k meter machines personally verified by salesman.

Turned out they have 40k on them so the inflated price was not justified.
Been promising me a refund for close to a year now. At least 7 emails promising it's on the way. LIAR LIAR!!!

wjurls
07-15-2020, 09:03 PM
At first glance I was hoping this was a dealer buying wholesale and telling everyone what a shady outfit EBU - EQUIPMENT BROKERS UNLIMITED IS. !!!

If I had the time I would be suing them and apparently had I researched a bit more first, I would see we are not alone.

Sold us two 7k meter machines personally verified by salesman.

Turned out they have 40k on them so the inflated price was not justified.
Been promising me a refund for close to a year now. At least 7 emails promising it's on the way. LIAR LIAR!!!


EBU is the worst to deal with!! Nothing but old beat up shit! Shady as hell!!

progoffice
07-15-2020, 09:52 PM
We've had good luck buying used Konica Minolta color machines over the years from TNT Copier Wholesale out of Tampa, FL. Mark Turner is our sales rep and he always helps us out when things don't come in as expected. We had a machine come in once with a super low meter but the scanner bed was bent and unusable. They took our word for it and allowed us to buy it for a parts machine price. We can also request paper tray and finisher configurations and he'll do his best to make it happen. They always have new inventory coming in and are a great source for customers that don't want to buy new. You might get some in with bent or broken covers etc., but as a dealer you can get the parts in you need to properly refurbish the machine to sell as like new. The customer gets a great deal and so does the dealer.

Don N.
07-16-2020, 03:17 PM
We've had good luck buying used Konica Minolta color machines over the years from TNT Copier Wholesale out of Tampa, FL. Mark Turner is our sales rep and he always helps us out when things don't come in as expected. We had a machine come in once with a super low meter but the scanner bed was bent and unusable. They took our word for it and allowed us to buy it for a parts machine price. We can also request paper tray and finisher configurations and he'll do his best to make it happen. They always have new inventory coming in and are a great source for customers that don't want to buy new. You might get some in with bent or broken covers etc., but as a dealer you can get the parts in you need to properly refurbish the machine to sell as like new. The customer gets a great deal and so does the dealer.

Yup. Been dealing with them for years.
I had a church that was stuck on buying new. We proposed two C558's that EBU supposedly personally verified 7k & 15k total meters. We know that super low meter machines can have weird issues and that's why these 55 ppm machines might have these meters. So he verified they work fine, and total meters are as stated. The cost was $500 higher each than others with 40~50k meters and I was happy to pay it. On arrival, the electronic tickets printed by EBU read 7k & 15k each, but the hard meters inside the door were over 40k each. Printed invoice says "if equipment is not as stated we offer a 110% refund" All I asked for was the $500 increase back that is no longer justified. Salesman says agreed, he remembers these were for a church and that he verified meters and $1000 check will be sent asap. ... a year later and about 10 calls & email promises from Jim Rasic at EBU... all lies.
DO NOT BUY FROM EBU!!! Oh, and if EBU reads this - SUE ME!!!! PLEASE!!! We'll make it a class action complaint and ask for 3x the damages.

schmeckles22
07-19-2020, 03:24 PM
Thank you for to all those that helped! All units have been replaced, rechipped from black unit and everything is spot on.
AMAZING! Not felt this happy for a long while.

Apart from a burnt finger from my solder iron, everything went smoothly.
I will be donating to the forum at the end of the month when my salary hits.

copyman
07-19-2020, 04:57 PM
Nice to hear good news. Glad we ALL could help. Thanks for taking the time to let us know what the fix was. Many members on this forum get help and never hear from them again. It's not only good news to the techs that help you but more importantly the people that do internet searches and end up on this forum. It will help many in the future to see what the fix was.

Phil B.
07-19-2020, 10:34 PM
Hello sir
i buy used machine km c364e when i go to setting its not ahowing consumable life drum and developer before i have c360 it show every thing can u tell me how can i see consumable life in c364e Thanks ...i also know how to open service mode if therr any option off please tell me how to on that option.

you are replying to a 'shady dealer' your post has NOTHING to do with this thread.

Please review forum rules: https://www.copytechnet.com/forums/misc.php?do=vsarules

and start a new thread here: https://www.copytechnet.com/forums/konica-minolta/

1) please list ALL issues
2) any error codes ( post error log in PDF format )
3) oem / compat supplies

do not reply to this comment please. Start A New Thread in the appropriate forum.

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