C280 J-3003

[orestesp]

Hi everyone,

As I was printing a couple of hundred questionnaires on the C280, there would be an intermittent J-3003 jam with the paper jamming at the 2nd transfer roller. It appears to be happening at random intervals, and it doesn't happen with short run jobs. The machine had been working continuously for 2 hours and the area around the fuser had become hot to the touch (nothing extreme though), if that matters at all. The paper would get folded in a z-fold pattern at the 2nd transfer roller. Sometimes though whatever is causing this I assume also causes some sheets would come out heavily wrinkled, and you can hear some abnormal noise when this occurs.

I've read some older threads regarding that particular jam code suggesting that the 2nd transfer roller needs to be replaced, which normally I'd agree with, but the total counter on the machine is 135k! Which means that the 2nd transfer roller is nowhere near its EOL. I am attaching a few pictures of the 2nd transfer roller, maybe you can pick out what's wrong if it's there.

TIA!

[allan]

Check if you registration roller bushings are not gummed up.
If its stiff to turn by hand remove vertical guide that houses the image density sensors and give it a good clean.

a Quick way to test is to put a small well directed and controlled amount of WD40 on those brass bushings.
Not suppose to put lube there but you will know soon enough if its the registration roller ends and bushings that
gummed up.

Could be something else.

[orestesp]

Check if you registration roller bushings are not gummed up.
If its stiff to turn by hand remove vertical guide that houses the image density sensors and give it a good clean.

a Quick way to test is to put a small well directed and controlled amount of WD40 on those brass bushings.
Not suppose to put lube there but you will know soon enough if its the registration roller ends and bushings that
gummed up.

Could be something else.

Just how stiff to turn are we talking about? Shouldn't the reg roller be a little stiff to turn normally?

[blackcat4866]

On the xx4e series 30-03 jams can be caused by the exit section clutch CL8, or exit switch mounted on the outer door. None of my C360 series machines lasted long enough to get these problems, but that's where I would start. =^..^=

[allan]

Just how stiff to turn are we talking about? Shouldn't the reg roller be a little stiff to turn normally?


Yes a little more than what you would expect from those rollers.
Its got no clutch there and you will feel some resistance from the stepper motor magnets.


On the xx4e series 30-03 jams can be caused by the exit section clutch CL8, or exit switch mounted on the outer door. None of my C360 series machines lasted long enough to get these problems, but that's where I would start. =^..^=

And they can last still willing to PM them at 2mil if it was a runner.

[tsbservice]

Paper that has excessive curl may not separate easily from the Transfer belt and will contact
the separator claw. A jam may occur or the claw may be pushed into the Transfer belt creating a scratch or possibly a gouge.
There are parts modification. See attached.
46781

[ivovb]

Same problem here - J3003 on long runs, sometimes... Have to go tomorrow. I has intention firstly giving a chance to WD40. Thank You tsbservice for pointing the issue.

BR

[robinsonad86]

There should be a black guide that sits on the metal plate attached to the transfer belt. Its purpose is to assist paper in entering the fuser and stop lead edge flicking over the transfer belt. If this is missing can cause these jams, more often on 224 style machines but seen a few times on 280

[allan]

Same problem here - J3003 on long runs, sometimes... Have to go tomorrow. I has intention firstly giving a chance to WD40. Thank You tsbservice for pointing the issue.

BR

Yes its just a quick check if that works or not you will need to strip and clean the shaft and bushings properly. The WD40 will loosen it but will be sure to gum up again in time.


There should be a black guide that sits on the metal plate attached to the transfer belt. Its purpose is to assist paper in entering the fuser and stop lead edge flicking over the transfer belt. If this is missing can cause these jams, more often on 224 style machines but seen a few times on 280

O yea good point!

[tsbservice]

There should be a black guide that sits on the metal plate attached to the transfer belt. Its purpose is to assist paper in entering the fuser and stop lead edge flicking over the transfer belt. If this is missing can cause these jams, more often on 224 style machines but seen a few times on 280

I don't see why this guide can be missing unless lazy users/techs decided to skip putting it back.

Edit: but it's missing there 😄

[orestesp]

There was burnt toner that presumably fell off the fuser onto the shafts of the reg rollers right next to their bearings. I did a quick clean up and added some WD-40. The reg roller had some initial resistance when you tried to spin it, but now it's gone. Otherwise it behaves the exact same way it did before.

Finally, there is only one finger on the belt, seems that the machine had been modified according to the bulletin tbs attached.

I haven't tested it yet but I may disassemble the whole reg assy and give it a more thorough clean. Is there anything else you think I should also check?

Thanks.

[tsbservice]

There was burnt toner that presumably fell off the fuser onto the shafts of the reg rollers right next to their bearings. I did a quick clean up and added some WD-40. The reg roller had some initial resistance when you tried to spin it, but now it's gone. Otherwise it behaves the exact same way it did before.

Finally, there is only one finger on the belt, seems that the machine had been modified according to the bulletin tbs attached.

I haven't tested it yet but I may disassemble the whole reg assy and give it a more thorough clean. Is there anything else you think I should also check?

Thanks.
No. Your is UNmodified, new ones have 3 claws. Also you will need that black plastic guide - item 19

46784

[orestesp]

No. Your is UNmodified, new ones have 3 claws. Also you will need that black plastic guide - item 19

46784
Sorry, I got confused and thought that having one claw meant that I'm good. Thanks for the advice, I'll check if there's somewhere to buy these parts..

[Phil B.]

Sorry, I got confused and thought that having one claw meant that I'm good. Thanks for the advice, I'll check if there's somewhere to buy these parts..

**NOTE I wouldn't suggest using WD40.. it is not a rust preventive.. it is a WATER dispersant may I suggest you try Triflow oil.. it has teflon particles in it.. give longer protection.

[blackcat4866]

**NOTE I wouldn't suggest using WD40.. it is not a rust preventive.. it is a WATER dispersant may I suggest you try Triflow oil.. it has teflon particles in it.. give longer protection.

If you need it to penetrate try Marvel Mystery Oil, but it vaporizes within a year and is gone.

[tsbservice]

Check if you registration roller bushings are not gummed up.
If its stiff to turn by hand remove vertical guide that houses the image density sensors and give it a good clean.

a Quick way to test is to put a small well directed and controlled amount of WD40 on those brass bushings.
Not suppose to put lube there but you will know soon enough if its the registration roller ends and bushings that
gummed up.

Could be something else.

Guys, allan said "Quick way to test".
Means - just to troubleshoot before disassemble and clean properly.

[Phil B.]

Guys, allan said "Quick way to test".
Means - just to troubleshoot before disassemble and clean properly.

WD40 has been known for years to destroy BRASS Bushings.. it dries out the oil built into the bearing causing squeaks.. and wears out the shaft where the bushing rides...

this was found out in the early days of the color units Both HP and Canon.. Ricoh came out a few years later with the same statement.

I always disassemble ... clean and lube the bushings/bearings

[Hansoon]

*Slightly Off-topic*


Paper that has excessive curl may not separate easily from the Transfer belt and will contact
the separator claw. A jam may occur or the claw may be pushed into the Transfer belt creating a scratch or possibly a gouge.
There are parts modification. See attached.
8978.pdf (https://www.copytechnet.com/forums/attachments/konica-minolta/46781d1600175951-c280-j-3003-a-8978-pdf)

I had once on a BH-C-360 a brandnew OEM TB with the famous 3 separators where after a jam the middle separator ripped the belt. Since than on all of our rentals I remove ALL separators, being one or three, and leave the TB completely without.....

Hans

[blackcat4866]

*Slightly Off-topic*



I had once on a BH-C-360 a brandnew OEM TB with the famous 3 separators where after a jam the middle separator ripped the belt. Since than on all of our rentals I remove ALL separators, being one or three, and leave the TB completely without.....

Hans

I believe this is SOP with most techs I know. It's a permanent fix for "Mustache on every fourth copy".
=^..^=

[allan]

*Slightly Off-topic*



I had once on a BH-C-360 a brandnew OEM TB with the famous 3 separators where after a jam the middle separator ripped the belt. Since than on all of our rentals I remove ALL separators, being one or three, and leave the TB completely without.....

Hans

Hehe done the same before. After needing a transfer belt replacement a found a piece of paper that must of been riding on the top of the belt for months.

Sorry guys WD40 was bad advise. You will need to strip and clean anyway.
Sanitizer for the job?

I believe this is SOP with most techs I know. It's a permanent fix for "Mustache on every fourth copy".
=^..^=

Here we call it a butterfly.

[orestesp]

Hi guys,

Unfortunately, she won't play along, I am attaching some more pictures so you can see what I am talking about.

Again, I was in a middle of a job, was in about 2 hours of almost non-stop printing, almost a thousand clicks, and then it just threw the J-3003 and she wouldn't print no more. The bushings on the reg roller seemed clean (as I said I gave them a quick clean up but they weren't that dirty to begin with), I even added some more WD-40 to see if it's to blame but it jammed again, same code on the next sheet it pulled.

One of the two pictures shows exactly how the jammed paper was when I opened the side door. Once it cooled down after an hour of inactivity or so she would print again normally. The second photo is what I printed after waiting for a bit and as you can see the sheet came out wrinkled, not sure if it's just a coincidence or not.

Seems like something is wrong with the paper path between the transfer section and the fusing section?

Thanks.

[blackcat4866]

It looks as if the leading edge tried to follow the top of the transfer belt, missing the fuser inlet.

On this jammed image do you notice diminished second transfer on the jammed page?
I notice a notch on the leading edge of your jammed page. Does it have the separation claw on the transfer belt assembly? Have you tried it with/without that center claw? It's not uncommon on this family of machines to find a piece of paper coasting along on top of the belt at PM time, not affecting anything. Most techs entirely remove those claws. =^..^=

[orestesp]

It looks as if the leading edge tried to follow the top of the transfer belt, missing the fuser inlet.

On this jammed image do you notice diminished second transfer on the jammed page?
I notice a notch on the leading edge of your jammed page. Does it have the separation claw on the transfer belt assembly? Have you tried it with/without that center claw? It's not uncommon on this family of machines to find a piece of paper coasting along on top of the belt at PM time, not affecting anything. Most techs entirely remove those claws. =^..^=

Yes indeed, the sheet tries to follow the rotation of the TB. There was no toner transfer happening on that sheet; it was completely blank. I have now removed the single sep claw from the TB but this still bugs me; why does it happen once the area surrounding the fusing unit becomes relatively warm, but when it cools down it works fine?

Thanks.

[copier tech]

Yes indeed, the sheet tries to follow the rotation of the TB. There was no toner transfer happening on that sheet; it was completely blank. I have now removed the single sep claw from the TB but this still bugs me; why does it happen once the area surrounding the fusing unit becomes relatively warm, but when it cools down it works fine?

Thanks.


You say the machine was running for "2 hours continuously" this does sound excessive, how long was/is the print job?

Paper quality can make a big difference especially on these older models. Try thicker paper as a test.

Also the machine only has 135k on the counter but age is a factor now, the fuser may need replacing the bearings can dry out etc.

[BillyCarpenter]

It looks as if the leading edge tried to follow the top of the transfer belt, missing the fuser inlet.

On this jammed image do you notice diminished second transfer on the jammed page?
I notice a notch on the leading edge of your jammed page. Does it have the separation claw on the transfer belt assembly? Have you tried it with/without that center claw? It's not uncommon on this family of machines to find a piece of paper coasting along on top of the belt at PM time, not affecting anything. Most techs entirely remove those claws. =^..^=


Really interesting stuff. You won't find that in any service manual.

[BillyCarpenter]

Yes indeed, the sheet tries to follow the rotation of the TB. There was no toner transfer happening on that sheet; it was completely blank. I have now removed the single sep claw from the TB but this still bugs me; why does it happen once the area surrounding the fusing unit becomes relatively warm, but when it cools down it works fine?

Thanks.

Could be static electricity? Could be lots of things. Chalk it up to magic and don't drive yourself crazy. :D

[orestesp]

You say the machine was running for "2 hours continuously" this does sound excessive, how long was/is the print job?

Paper quality can make a big difference especially on these older models. Try thicker paper as a test.

Also the machine only has 135k on the counter but age is a factor now, the fuser may need replacing the bearings can dry out etc.



It was basically a bunch of a files as well as physical documents, it wasn't as much printing as it was me trying to keep everything organized so I wouldn't have a huge stack of documents in mixed order. I'd say it printed around ~600 A4 pages at best.

In general it feeds thicker paper just fine, and this brand of photocopying paper that we use never ever has it given us any trouble, our other machine just went through boxes of it without a single jam. I haven't tested feeding thicker paper while it jams the usual stuff though.

Pardon my ignorance, but don't the fusers on these units use sealed bearings?

[blackcat4866]

Really interesting stuff. You won't find that in any service manual.

I think that's the most important thing about these forums. Most of the truly important things we learn are never documented in any manual or bulletin. Quite often the solutions are discovered entirely on accident, and only later attributable to a specific cause.

If there was a theme to the threads I start, it would be: "I was working on something entirely different, and accidentally discovered ... "

=^..^=

[copier tech]

It was basically a bunch of a files as well as physical documents, it wasn't as much printing as it was me trying to keep everything organized so I wouldn't have a huge stack of documents in mixed order. I'd say it printed around ~600 A4 pages at best.

In general it feeds thicker paper just fine, and this brand of photocopying paper that we use never ever has it given us any trouble, our other machine just went through boxes of it without a single jam. I haven't tested feeding thicker paper while it jams the usual stuff though.

Pardon my ignorance, but don't the fusers on these units use sealed bearings?

If it feeds thicker paper just fine you can rule out clutches & sensors etc.

The fuser has various bearings & bushings they are self lubricating however will dry out over time causing the fuser rollers to stall or drive slower etc. Your fuser could almost be 10 years old.

When paper jams in the position in your picture it is usually caused by damp or poor quality paper.

Just because it feeds ok on another machine does not rule this out.

[blackcat4866]

... Pardon my ignorance, but don't the fusers on these units use sealed bearings?

Yes. I can think of no exceptions in 30+ years.

I have attempted to save partially seizing bearings in the past with generally poor results. Especially in the fuser, you cannot use oil. It will smoke and stink, sometimes for weeks. To get high temp grease like HP500 or Uniflor 8172 into a sealed bearing you must unseal it, prying off the cover, which is usually then too damaged to re-install. I will say there have been a few successes though.

Lately Kyocera techs will confirm that we've had a rash of bearing issues on the FK-8550H fusers. What I discovered recently is that the bearing 6901Z is NOT failing. It's the soft pressure roller shaft spinning within the hardened inner bearing race, reducing the diameter of the pressure roller shaft and generating piles of iron dust. I believe if the initial diameter of the shaft was larger and the bearing press-fit, it wouldn't spin on the shaft. It's not like these fusers are serviceable, and we'd have to get those bearings off at any time.
=^..^=

[BillyCarpenter]

I think that's the most important thing about these forums. Most of the truly important things we learn are never documented in any manual or bulletin. Quite often the solutions are discovered entirely on accident, and only later attributable to a specific cause.

If there was a theme to the threads I start, it would be: "I was working on something entirely different, and accidentally discovered ... "

=^..^=

Yep, as technicians sometimes we have to think outside-of-the-box. I've had other technicians tell me to never remove things like separation claws because they're there for a reason. But if copiers were engineered perfectly, we wouldn't have a job.

Sometimes I can't explain why it works, it just does and I move on to the next copier on the schedule.

[BillyCarpenter]

Yes. I can think of no exceptions in 30+ years.

I have attempted to save partially seizing bearings in the past with generally poor results. Especially in the fuser, you cannot use oil. It will smoke and stink, sometimes for weeks. To get high temp grease like HP500 or Uniflor 8172 into a sealed bearing you must unseal it, prying off the cover, which is usually then too damaged to re-install. I will say there have been a few successes though.

Lately Kyocera techs will confirm that we've had a rash of bearing issues on the FK-8550H fusers. What I discovered recently is that the bearing 6901Z is NOT failing. It's the soft pressure roller shaft spinning within the hardened inner bearing race, reducing the diameter of the pressure roller shaft and generating piles of iron dust. I believe if the initial diameter of the shaft was larger and the bearing press-fit, it wouldn't spin on the shaft. It's not like these fusers are serviceable, and we'd have to get those bearings off at any time.
=^..^=

I agree with all of this. I'll add this:

I've seen techs who as part of SOP put oil on sealed bearings as a preventative measure. That's a mistake. All the oil does is attract dirt and causes the bearing to wear prematurely. And it's not getting inside the bearing anyway. I leave those suckers dry and replace when necessary.