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Elmojo
11-23-2020, 04:18 PM
Hi all,
I've searched until my eyes are crossed, but I can't seem to track this one down.
Also, I've investigated the possibility of it being an issue with SMBv1, but it appears that it's already on on this machine.
The 'server' at my office is just a windows 7 desktop machine, acting as a file hub for our office.
The Konica is set up scan to a shared folder on the server, and normally it works just fine.
However, intermittently, it loses the connection to the scan folder. Sometimes it drops twice a day, sometimes it works fine for several days.
When it fails, there is an error on the screen, but the office manager can't recall what it is exactly. I'll try to get a photo the next time it happens.
Oddly, it will sometimes drop in the middle of a multi-page scan job. Rebooting the server fixes it for a while.
Any idea what this could be?

tsbservice
11-23-2020, 06:28 PM
At what FW version is your machine?

bsm2
11-23-2020, 07:07 PM
Have you replaced the network cable and changed the port on the network switch?

Elmojo
11-23-2020, 07:10 PM
At what FW version is your machine?

Good question. Is that info viewable via the web interface?
I'm remote at the moment.
Also, I've just discovered that it seems that someone has changed the admin login from the default 1-8x2.
Any idea how to reset it, or if that's even possible remotely?
The plot thickens...

Elmojo
11-23-2020, 07:14 PM
Have you replaced the network cable and changed the port on the network switch?

Unfortunately, that's not an option. Someone (not me!) ran cat5 directly from the server area to the copier room. There are terminated cables hanging out of the wall at both ends. No patch cords, no way to swap them out. Yeah, I know. :rolleyes:
As for the switch, we haven't tried another port specifically, but the switch itself was replaced about a year ago. The issue existed before then, so I'm gonna say that's not the problem...maybe. :p

bsm2
11-23-2020, 07:19 PM
Unfortunately, that's not an option. Someone (not me!) ran cat5 directly from the server area to the copier room. There are terminated cables hanging out of the wall at both ends. No patch cords, no way to swap them out. Yeah, I know. :rolleyes:
As for the switch, we haven't tried another port specifically, but the switch itself was replaced about a year ago. The issue existed before then, so I'm gonna say that's not the problem...maybe. :p


Make sure the windows 7 box does not go into energy saver or turns off the hard drive

Is box using Hostname or static Ipaddress it's not the copier it's the PC that is the issue

BillyCarpenter
11-23-2020, 07:25 PM
Unfortunately, that's not an option. Someone (not me!) ran cat5 directly from the server area to the copier room. There are terminated cables hanging out of the wall at both ends. No patch cords, no way to swap them out. Yeah, I know. :rolleyes:
As for the switch, we haven't tried another port specifically, but the switch itself was replaced about a year ago. The issue existed before then, so I'm gonna say that's not the problem...maybe. :p

I would do a continuous ping and note if there's any difference in the time or if it's losing connection intermittently.

copier tech
11-23-2020, 07:26 PM
Hi all,
I've searched until my eyes are crossed, but I can't seem to track this one down.
Also, I've investigated the possibility of it being an issue with SMBv1, but it appears that it's already on on this machine.
The 'server' at my office is just a windows 7 desktop machine, acting as a file hub for our office.
The Konica is set up scan to a shared folder on the server, and normally it works just fine.
However, intermittently, it loses the connection to the scan folder. Sometimes it drops twice a day, sometimes it works fine for several days.
When it fails, there is an error on the screen, but the office manager can't recall what it is exactly. I'll try to get a photo the next time it happens.
Oddly, it will sometimes drop in the middle of a multi-page scan job. Rebooting the server fixes it for a while.
Any idea what this could be?

This sound like your Win 7 PC/server is possibly going into sleep mode then the LAN card will disconnect.

BillyCarpenter
11-23-2020, 07:27 PM
I would do a continuous ping and note if there's any difference in the time or if it's losing connection intermittently.


By the way, I stole that from another member and I'd give them credit if I could remember who it was. ;)

tsbservice
11-23-2020, 07:29 PM
Good question. Is that info viewable via the web interface?
I'm remote at the moment.
Also, I've just discovered that it seems that someone has changed the admin login from the default 1-8x2.
Any idea how to reset it, or if that's even possible remotely?
The plot thickens...

Why would anyone change Admin password on your machine? That really doesn't make sense.
You can reset it via service mode but that's another story.

tsbservice
11-23-2020, 07:32 PM
By the way, I stole that from another member and I'd give them credit if I could remember who it was. ;)

You're learning fast, this is excellent troubleshooting in case of intermittent failures.

bsm2
11-23-2020, 07:32 PM
By the way, I stole that from another member and I'd give them credit if I could remember who it was. ;)


Good Idea but they would also be getting printing issues as well :cool::cool:
But the ping command would show it's not the copier

tsbservice
11-23-2020, 07:39 PM
Good Idea but they would also be getting printing issues as well :cool::cool:

It's not compulsory in this case as they're using the Win7 PC mainly for scanning and are printing from different PCs.

Blizzoo
11-23-2020, 07:39 PM
If possible I would create/share another scan folder from another PC on the network and monitor what happens scanning there, assuming printing works just fine if using same server?

bsm2
11-23-2020, 07:41 PM
It's not compulsory in this case as they're using the Win7 PC mainly for scanning and are printing from different PCs.


Thanks for making my point the problem is the one Pc :cool::cool:

Windows 7 ethernet goes to sleep! [solved] – Windows 7 ethernet goes to sleep! [solved] (https://www.jdhodges.com/blog/windows-7-ethernet-goes-to-sleep/)

tsbservice
11-23-2020, 07:52 PM
Thanks for making my point the problem is the one Pc :cool::cool:

Windows 7 ethernet goes to sleep! [solved] – Windows 7 ethernet goes to sleep! [solved] (https://www.jdhodges.com/blog/windows-7-ethernet-goes-to-sleep/)

:D how twisted you're. Never said it can't be Win 7 PC itself. Right test is like Blizzoo suggested.
Keep trying 😄

BillyCarpenter
11-23-2020, 07:52 PM
Thanks for making my point the problem is the one Pc :cool::cool:

Windows 7 ethernet goes to sleep! [solved] – Windows 7 ethernet goes to sleep! [solved] (https://www.jdhodges.com/blog/windows-7-ethernet-goes-to-sleep/)


Good stuff. I'm taking notes. ;)

Elmojo
11-23-2020, 07:53 PM
All great ideas, thanks folks!
I'll check into the server-side settings. I'm pretty sure it's not going into sleep mode, since I built it, and I log into it fairly often via Teamviewer. I never notice any real lag or loss of communication.
I'd also be surprised if it was the LAN card going to sleep, since that would cut off the other machines in the office that are pretty constantly accessing files on the drive, wouldn't it?
EDIT: I checked that link by bsm2 about the sleepy lan, and mine was indeed set to allow the card to sleep. I can't say if it was or was not actually doing it, but I've turned it off, so we'll see if the situation improves... :)

That's a puzzler for sure about the admin mode password being changed. I have no clue why or how that would have happened. We've owned the machine for several years, but I don't really recall ever trying to log into the admin section of the web interface until today. We've had a local copier company work on it once or twice, so it's possible they changed it to keep control of the machine, although of course they shouldn't have.

I have to be on-site sometime next week to install some drums. I'll probably just reset it then if I can't sort it out beforehand. CE mode on this machine is the typical sequence, right?

bsm2
11-23-2020, 07:55 PM
Error message on the copier or PC ?

tsbservice
11-23-2020, 08:11 PM
...
CE mode on this machine is the typical .... sequence, right?
Should be otherwise you're in big trouble...

Elmojo
11-23-2020, 08:12 PM
Should be otherwise you're in big trouble...

Good point! Sorry, didn't realize I wasn't supposed to post the code. I removed it from the other post. :o

Elmojo
11-23-2020, 08:13 PM
Error message on the copier or PC ?

Yes, error msg on the copier, noted in OP. Not sure of exact wording.
Office manager is going to get a photo next time it happens.

Phil B.
11-23-2020, 08:15 PM
what gets me is the OP says that SMBv1 is active...

there are major security problems with that. That's why MS disables it ....

viri and ransomware are know to penetrate a v1 system...

did anyone mention that in the plethora of comments made here?

virus's do some strange shit to a PC/Server.

just a thought

BillyCarpenter
11-23-2020, 08:20 PM
SMB is Dead, Long Live SMB! (https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/storage-at-microsoft/smb-is-dead-long-live-smb/ba-p/1185401)




Hello again, James Kehr here with another guest post. Titles are hard to do. They must convey the topic to the reader while being both interesting and informative, all at the same time. Doing this with a technical article makes life even harder. Now imagine my dilemma when starting an article about SMB1 behaviors in modern Windows. Think about that for a minute. Go ahead. The article will still be here.

Today I'll explain why you still see a little SMB1 on your network even after you uninstalled SMB1 from Windows, and why it's a good thing.

SMB1 is Dead!

The end of SMB version 1 (SMB1) topic has been discussed in great detail by Ned Pyle, who runs the SMB show here at Microsoft. Go read this article (https://aka.ms/StopUsingSMB1) if you have not.

At first glance this seems like I’m beating a dead horse. If that’s what you thought, you’d be right. Unfortunately, this figuratively dead horse needs to be beaten1 some more.

Please stop using SMB1. Please get rid of those ancient, legacy systems that only support SMB1. We constantly get cases from customers asking why modern Windows 10 doesn’t support SMB1 out-of-the-box so it will work with their old, insecure systems.

Let’s go over this one last time.



The only versions of Windows that require SMB1 are end-of-support (EOS). By years! These are Windows Server 2003 (EOS July 2015), Windows 2000 Server (EOS July 2010), their client editions, and older.
Samba and Linux distros like Ubuntu have retired SMB1 as well. If you have a Linux/Unix-like distro that only supports SMB1, it’s time to upgrade.
Not only does Microsoft not support these EOS operating systems (OS’s), we do not support interoperability with them. Meaning, if the latest version of Windows 10 does no work with an EOS version of Windows over SMB, Microsoft will not support you.


Why not? Let’s start by putting the age of Windows 2000 (W2000) and 2003 (W2003) into perspective.



EOS Windows versus Apple:

Windows 2000 was released 7 years before the first iPhone.
Windows 2003/XP was released 4 years before the first iPhone.
Apple computers were still running IBM PowerPC processors.
Asking for EOS Windows support is like asking Apple to support PowerPC Macs. I’m sure Apple support would get a good laugh out of the request, but I imagine that’s as far as the request would go.





… vs Android

Didn’t even exist.





… vs Linux

Kernel 2.2.14 was released the same year as Windows 2000.
Version 2.4 was the newest kernel when Windows Server 2003 launched.
Support for the last version of the version 2 kernel, 2.6.32, ended in 2016.
How fast do you think the “no” would come back from Linux distro support if you asked for support on kernel 2.2 or 2.4? Assuming your distro of choice even existed back then.


By asking Microsoft to support EOS Windows, people are effectively asking us to support an OS that is so old that the modern smartphone didn’t even exist yet. Not counting Pocket PC or Windows Mobile here. An era when dial-up internet was still dominant (https://money.cnn.com/2000/11/01/technology/fcc_dsl/index.htm) and the world was still learning how high-speed Internet would impact computer security.

Multi-core processors didn’t exist yet, outside of the mainframe space. Those didn’t come around until 2004 (AMD) and 2005 (Intel). X86 64-bit processors didn’t exist when W2000 was released and they were brand new for W2003. Running legacy OS’s is not just bad security, it’s scary security because you are running an OS built for a completely different era of computing.

The real question here is: Why are you still running an OS or device that is so old it requires SMB1?

The SMB1 Problem

The biggest problem with SMB1 is that it was developed for the pre-Internet era. The first dialect came out in 1983 from IBM. Security and performance were designed for closed token ring networks and old fashion spinny disks. As EternalBlue and WannaCry would later prove, it is not a protocol that has aged well and it is no longer safe to use.

Unlike most other deprecated protocols, however, SMB1 controls the keys to the kingdom: data, services, file systems, accounts, and more. This makes SMB1 exploits critically harmful.

When Microsoft decided to retire SMB1 for real, and stop asking nicely, we tore off that band-aid by removing it completely from Windows 10 Spring 2017 Update (Win10 1703), when Windows detected that SMB1 was not in use. No SMB1 dialect was sent during negotiation, no SMB1 was allowed at all. And that broke things.

It turned out that some devices which only know about SMB1 weren’t quite sure what to do when getting an SMB request with no SMB1 in it. This caused a lot of strange behavior on the Windows-side; namely, hanging or pausing until everything finally timed out. This manifested in Windows as an unresponsive Windows Explorer (the technical name for the yellow folder icon you click on to access your files). People don’t like that. I don’t like that.

We ended up making changes to mitigate this without actually enabling SMB1.



Windows 10 1709 (2017 Fall Update) and newer will send SMB1 dialects as part of the SMB negotiate. We do this to help interoperability with legacy devices. I.E. prevent Windows Explorer from pausing/hanging.
We will not actually allow an SMB1 connection when SMB1 is disabled. We only pretend to. The connection will end up getting closed when the server or client tries to use an SMB1 dialect.

In addition to preventing uncomfortably long waits for Windows users, it lets us bubble up messages about SMB1 only devices on your network. System admins can look in the Event Viewer > Applications and Services Logs > Microsoft > Windows > SMBServer-Operational log for event ID 1001, which is created when SMB1 is used.

Log Name: Microsoft-Windows-SMBServer/Operational
Source: Microsoft-Windows-SMBServer
Date: 9/17/2019 12:17:41 PM

tsbservice
11-23-2020, 08:40 PM
Good point! Sorry, didn't realize I wasn't supposed to post the code. I removed it from the other post. :o

Yepp, of course anyone with 2 brain cells can find out default passwords Googling I just try to not mention them unnecessarily.

tsbservice
11-23-2020, 08:42 PM
what gets me is the OP says that SMBv1 is active...

there are major security problems with that. That's why MS disables it ....

viri and ransomware are know to penetrate a v1 system...

did anyone mention that in the plethora of comments made here?

virus's do some strange shit to a PC/Server.

just a thought

You're right Phil. That's why I asked about machine FW version firstly.

Elmojo
11-23-2020, 08:48 PM
You're right Phil. That's why I asked about machine FW version firstly.

I'm fully aware of the security issues of SMBv1. However, I've had more times than I can count in the past couple years where older equipment just refused to play nice without it.
Sometimes you just encounter the 'lesser of two evils' situation. If it's a matter of increased risk of malware vs a large format printer not being accessible over the network, for example...which option do you think the customer will choose? :p
I can easily disable it, if we determine that it's not the culprit here.

I may have missed the answer earlier, but is the FW version viewable within the web interface, or do I need to be on-site to get it from the front panel?

BillyCarpenter
11-23-2020, 08:53 PM
Why are you running Windows 7?

bsm2
11-23-2020, 08:56 PM
Turn off SMB1 and use scan via Ftp :cool::cool: or update the FW if it's available

tsbservice
11-23-2020, 08:56 PM
I'm fully aware of the security issues of SMBv1. However, I've had more times than I can count in the past couple years where older equipment just refused to play nice without it.
Sometimes you just encounter the 'lesser of two evils' situation. If it's a matter of increased risk of malware vs a large format printer not being accessible over the network, for example...which option do you think the customer will choose? :p
I can easily disable it, if we determine that it's not the culprit here.

I may have missed the answer earlier, but is the FW version viewable within the web interface, or do I need to be on-site to get it from the front panel?

As you don't have Admin password just ask someone on site to press Home button then Utility - device information. FW version should be there as IP address and function version(latest is 4.2).

Elmojo
11-23-2020, 09:08 PM
Why are you running Windows 7?
Because it works perfectly fine, and I absolutely despise Windows 10. That's an entirely separate conversation, and not one that you want to get into with me, I assure you. :p


Turn off SMB1 and use scan via Ftp :cool::cool: or update the FW if it's available
I believe we tried that initially, and never could get the FTP service to run correctly on the server side.
I finally found out how to view the FW versions, see the attached image. Is there an updated version I should be using? (I see below that there is)
If so, how would I go about getting it? That gets updated via a USB drive from the front panel, correct? Any way to do it remotely, or is that too risky?


As you don't have Admin password just ask someone on site to press Home button then Utility - device information. FW version should be there as IP address and function version(latest is 4.2).

Got in! I must have remembered the password wrong. Oops. lol I thought it was an x2 sequence, but it's not. Anyway...
Looks like we are Function V2.0, so pretty old.

tsbservice
11-23-2020, 09:13 PM
Very old FW. Better update it.

Elmojo
11-23-2020, 09:21 PM
Very old FW. Better update it.

I'd love to!
Firmware source?
Update Instructions?
Svc Manual?
I'm such a needy beggar.... :o

bsm2
11-23-2020, 09:22 PM
Use filezilla server or konica ftp
but update the fw if you can

Phil B.
11-23-2020, 09:53 PM
I'd love to!
Firmware source?
Update Instructions?
Svc Manual?
I'm such a needy beggar.... :o

BUT you are a CONTRIBUTOR to CTN that makes the world of difference

Elmojo
11-23-2020, 10:03 PM
I am, and I will likely do so again. :D
This community has been SUCH a HUGE help to me in the past few months!
I'm a member of quite a few forums, message boards, mailing lists, etc... and I'd be hard pressed to name another group of more knowledgeable, friendly, courteous, helpful people.
You guys (and gals?) rock! :cool:

Phil B.
11-23-2020, 10:06 PM
I am, and I will likely do so again. :D
This community has been SUCH a HUGE help to me in the past few months!
I'm a member of quite a few forums, message boards, mailing lists, etc... and I'd be hard pressed to name another group of more knowledgeable, friendly, courteous, helpful people.
You guys (and gals?) rock! :cool:

we have sooo many here that have DECADES of knowledge and are more than willing to help out Techs/Users when they approach the problem logically and don't DEMAND they get 'shit' for free.

Synthohol
11-23-2020, 10:16 PM
I'd love to!
Firmware source?
Update Instructions?
Svc Manual?
I'm such a needy beggar.... :o
please list exactly what you need and im sure i can provide ;)

ck your PMs :)
thx for being a contributor!

BillyCarpenter
11-23-2020, 11:47 PM
please list exactly what you need and im sure i can provide ;)

ck your PMs :)
thx for being a contributor!


Synthohol is always stepping up. Props, man.

Elmojo
11-24-2020, 02:46 PM
Morning all...update time.
So I changed the power saving setting on the LAN card on the server to OFF.
As of this morning, the connection had dropped again and required a reboot, so I guess that wasn't it. :/
The error on the copier front panel just says "Failed to complete the job. Please check the job history."
Of course the ofc manager didn't know to look at the job history, so I don't know if any additional info would be in there.
I've also confirmed that the power plan on the server is set in such a way as to not sleep or shut anything off that would affect the network.

I plan to upgrade the firmware (thanks Sythohol!!) when I go over there next week, but we're not expected that alone to fix it, are we?
I'm not sure what the next step might be...
It sounds like FTP has been suggested, and I'm happy to try that, but I'll probably need some help configuring that if we go that route.

bsm2
11-24-2020, 02:53 PM
Scanning using hostname or ipaddress ? Should be using hard ipaddress that would address a DNS issue

Did you reboot PC after you turned off sleep on Lan? Some setting changes required a reboot inorder to take.

tsbservice
11-24-2020, 02:57 PM
Try to change the Network Speed to 100Mbps Full Duplex. It's under Admin settings
Network Settings --> Detail Settings -->Device Settings

Bix
11-24-2020, 03:06 PM
Hi,
A case very similar to yours happened to me on a printer. The printer literally went offline every time a scan was performed.


The solution was to change the network speed. Administrator Settings - Network - Network Speed. Instead of Auto 10/100/1Gbps I have set Auto 10/100Mbps

Elmojo
11-24-2020, 03:10 PM
Scanning using hostname or ipaddress ? Should be using hard ipaddress that would address a DNS issue

Did you reboot PC after you turned off sleep on Lan? Some setting changes required a reboot inorder to take.

Static IP on the server and copier. yes, rebooted server after power setting changes.


Try to change the Network Speed to 100Mbps Full Duplex. It's under Admin settings
Network Settings --> Detail Settings -->Device Settings

Ok, changed it via remote web portal. I'll get someone on-site to power cycle the machine. Thanks.

Elmojo
11-24-2020, 08:55 PM
Well, no joy on forcing the copier LAN mode to 100M/full duplex. It failed again this afternoon. :(
I guess I'll have to run the FW update, and go from there....

bsm2
11-24-2020, 09:01 PM
Well, no joy on forcing the copier LAN mode to 100M/full duplex. It failed again this afternoon. :(
I guess I'll have to run the FW update, and go from there....
That should have been the first move:eek::cool:

Elmojo
11-24-2020, 10:08 PM
That should have been the first move:eek::cool:

If I was on-site, it would have been. I'm over an hour away, and am waiting for parts for another job at the same site.
When I go next week, I'll do both together. I'm limiting my in-house time right now due to COVID exposure risk.

907tec
11-24-2020, 10:31 PM
I'm not certain that it would have an effect, but it might be worth disabling SNMP protocols. On some of my older machines, they like to show as "offline" according to windows, despite the connection being fine. If you disable the SNMP, it's like the computer stops pestering the old copier with queries and just lets it get to work.

Elmojo
11-26-2020, 08:37 PM
So I'm gonna be on-site tomorrow to update the FW, and would like to set up the FTP on the server at the same time, if someone could provide some guidance on how that works.
I've tried to find the Konica FTP utility, but all the results I find seem to be spam hits.
Also, would I be better off using that one, or Filezilla? I don't know anything about either, so whichever you folks suggest and can explain more easily I guess would be best. :o

BillyCarpenter
11-26-2020, 08:39 PM
Here's a good thread on Filezilla right here.


FTP Scanning Question (https://www.copytechnet.com/forums/connectivity/152621-ftp-scanning-question.html)

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