Got from Chinaman.......

[Hansoon]

...... NO, not egg noodles but a set of thermistors for the BH-C-280/360 series.

I had to rebuild the fuser since it made over 600K. The original thermistors where covered with brown goo, so to make it perfect I also replaced the 4 thermistors with non-OEM from Chinaman.

Shortly after firing up the machine it gave me a C-3721 service code for overheating accompanied with a stench of overheated plastic.

After inspecting the fuser unit I found following:

47996
(The violet paint our company uses to mark NON-OEM parts.)

Since this is my own office machine and I did not want to invest in a new fuser unit, at the same time not having a replacement for the thermistors I compared the thermistors of the BH-C-280/360 series with those of the ancient BH-C-353 machines, from which I have many to scrap, and they have the same electrical specs of 1.6MOhm at room temperature. They are mechanically totally different but I managed to adapt them. Trusting that, keeping them from the surface a millimeter, like in the the original C-280/360 and not like in the C-353, where they are touching the surface of the fuser foil it would work and yes it did. (keeping for the coming hours fingers crossed and having the # of the fire squad at hand, I think its OK) Allright, it looks clunky but it works and didn't cost me a dime..... :p

47997

47998

Hans

[blackcat4866]

The clunky aspect doesn't bother me as long as it fits inside the fuser cover. Nice work!

I've been trying to figure out diagnosing some Toshiba thermistors. My latest method is to warm up the clothes iron set to "Cotton". I pressed the thermistor to the tip of the iron and read resistance across a low 150C to high range 180C (a clothes iron cycles off/on just like a fuser giving a standard range of values). So a good thermister reads from <7.3Ω @ 150C to <5.6Ω @ 180C. At least with Toshiba themistors I used to read room temperature ~400KΩ and finger temperature ~270KΩ, which is not predictive of whether your thermistor is good or not.

That's just disappointing that you Chinese thermistors clearly were never tested in a real fusing unit. =^..^=

[BillyCarpenter]

The clunky aspect doesn't bother me as long as it fits inside the fuser cover. Nice work!

I've been trying to figure out diagnosing some Toshiba thermistors. My latest method is to warm up the clothes iron set to "Cotton". I pressed the thermistor to the tip of the iron and read resistance across a low 150C to high range 180C (a clothes iron cycles off/on just like a fuser giving a standard range of values). So a good thermister reads from <7.3Ω @ 150C to <5.6Ω @ 180C. At least with Toshiba themistors I used to read room temperature ~400KΩ and finger temperature ~270KΩ, which is not predictive of whether your thermistor is good or not.

That's just disappointing that you Chinese thermistors clearly were never tested in a real fusing unit. =^..^=


I've done some crazy shit like that in the past to test a thermistor. I thought I was the only one. lol


I think I used a soldering iron.

[allan]

Good job on getting your office machine running with your mod.

On the 223/423 machines the 3de party NTC's works real well and does not scratch the upper like the original ones. But sure you know that. Wonder if they are in the same resistance range?

Those are chines...

[Hansoon]

Good job on getting your office machine running with your mod.

On the 223/423 machines the 3de party NTC's works real well and does not scratch the upper like the original ones. But sure you know that. Wonder if they are in the same resistance range?

Those are chines...

Yes Allan, They are exactly the same 1.6MOhm at room temperature. But in the BH363/423 series no need to replace them most of the time. I just cover them with Teflon tape and than they, together with our modified Teflon hot rollers, live both together for ages....

Hans

[Hansoon]

"The clunky aspect doesn't bother me as long as it fits inside the fuser cover."

The black plastic cover fits snugly. No signs on the outside, nobody will know the fuser has been "tampered" with.
:p
The blue goo is heat resistant silicone compound keeping the thermistor housing from turning around the single screw. I felt too lazy to drill another hole beside it. It's Saturday today you know.....

Checking the temperature constantly in "State Confirmation" the temperature of the UFR fluctuates between 176-189°C and the LFR 145-150 °C

Hans

[mascan42]

They made those thermistors while making peepee in your Coke.

[copier tech]

...... NO, not egg noodles but a set of thermistors for the BH-C-280/360 series.

I had to rebuild the fuser since it made over 600K. The original thermistors where covered with brown goo, so to make it perfect I also replaced the 4 thermistors with non-OEM from Chinaman.

Shortly after firing up the machine it gave me a C-3721 service code for overheating accompanied with a stench of overheated plastic.

After inspecting the fuser unit I found following:

47996
(The violet paint our company uses to mark NON-OEM parts.)

Since this is my own office machine and I did not want to invest in a new fuser unit, at the same time not having a replacement for the thermistors I compared the thermistors of the BH-C-280/360 series with those of the ancient BH-C-353 machines, from which I have many to scrap, and they have the same electrical specs of 1.6MOhm at room temperature. They are mechanically totally different but I managed to adapt them. Trusting that, keeping them from the surface a millimeter, like in the the original C-280/360 and not like in the C-353, where they are touching the surface of the fuser foil it would work and yes it did. (keeping for the coming hours fingers crossed and having the # of the fire squad at hand, I think its OK) Allright, it looks clunky but it works and didn't cost me a dime..... :p

47997

47998

Hans

Wow this would be serious breach of health & safely here in the UK, you can smell burning on a fuser that has done 600k after replacing parts from an unknown source.

Don't EVER leave that machine on unattended :mad:

[Hansoon]

Wow this would be serious breach of health & safely here in the UK, you can smell burning on a fuser that has done 600k after replacing parts from an unknown source.

Don't EVER leave that machine on unattended :mad:

Don't get it. The risk seems theoretical to me.

The fuser made 600K. Than it was rebuild with: new UFR, new fuser film, new foam roller, new LFR, new bearings where necessary. This is our standard procedure since years and works well. The exception now was that the thermistors seemed OK but where extremely dirty covered with brown goo, hard to clean. Therefore I took those china-man thermistors from an me unknown supplier in AliBaba. Never used AliBaba before and they f§§ed me obviously.

The risk of causing havoc seems rather small to me since there is always the thermal cut out in the fuser. The thermal cutout not even opened this time, the machines logic was quicker in erroring out with C-3721.

OK, me too will feel happier having this machine for our own use in the office only. I would never put it outside with our clients. Though the C-353 thermistors I used now have the same electrical resistance at room temperature and also at 185°C, I do not know if their reaction curve is the same and perhaps there are other parameters than those two such as tolerance and how swift they react on temperature differences.

I'm not afraid to sit beside the beast anyway.......

Hans

[copier tech]

Don't get it. The risk seems theoretical to me.

The fuser made 600K. Than it was rebuild with: new UFR, new fuser film, new foam roller, new LFR, new bearings where necessary. This is our standard procedure since years and works well. The exception now was that the thermistors seemed OK but where extremely dirty covered with brown goo, hard to clean. Therefore I took those china-man thermistors from an me unknown supplier in AliBaba. Never used AliBaba before and they f§§ed me obviously.

The risk of causing havoc seems rather small to me since there is always the thermal cut out in the fuser. The thermal cutout not even opened this time, the machines logic was quicker in erroring out with C-3721.

OK, me too will feel happier having this machine for our own use in the office only. I would never put it outside with our clients. Though the C-353 thermistors I used now have the same electrical resistance at room temperature and also at 185°C, I do not know if their reaction curve is the same and perhaps there are other parameters than those two such as tolerance and how swift they react on temperature differences.

I'm not afraid to sit beside the beast anyway.......

Hans

The fact you stated the machine 'made a stench of overheated plastic' would ring alarm bells with me.

Konica Minolta didn't design these fusers to be rebuilt after 600k it owes you nothing, personally I would replace the fuser with a new one & get another 600k trouble free printing.

But I do understand some techs are working in poverty so have to do what they can.

[Hansoon]

The fact you stated the machine 'made a stench of overheated plastic' would ring alarm bells with me.

Yes but the stench came from those rotten Chinese AliBaba thermistors. I think they used a not heat-resistant kind of plastic. Probably the kind of plastic they use otherwise for their pisspots.....


Konica Minolta didn't design these fusers to be rebuilt after 600k it owes you nothing, personally I would replace the fuser with a new one & get another 600k trouble free printing.


Well, I replaced everything. The only thing left of those "fine KonicaMinolta designed fusers" was a frame, a few lamps and heat resistant wiring. Connectors where as new. Do not see how that could pose a danger.....


But I do understand some techs are working in poverty so have to do what they can.

Trying not to take that "poverty" too personal. :D

YES! I am an Indy and am proud of it that we Indies have to fight from time to time to keep up and are able to do. And I am proud of it that we are able to survive without constantly slamming new parts into machines. Good I am not a Green-Party member, otherwise I would find for sure some arguments about waste of resources and environment too......
:cool:

Hoping not to sound arrogant, but rebuilding a fuser unit need a little more than only removing two screws and four connectors as with installing a factory new unit. :p

Hans

[BillyCarpenter]

Yes but the stench came from those rotten Chinese AliBaba thermistors. I think they used a not heat-resistant kind of plastic. Probably the kind of plastic they use otherwise for their pisspots.....



Well, I replaced everything. The only thing left of those "fine KonicaMinolta designed fusers" was a frame, a few lamps and heat resistant wiring. Connectors where as new. Do not see how that could pose a danger.....



Trying not to take that "poverty" to personal. :D

YES! I am an Indy and am proud of it that we Indies have to fight from time to time to keep up and are able to do. And I am proud of it that we are able to survive without constantly slamming new parts into machines. Good I am not a Green-Party member, otherwise I would find for sure some arguments about waste of resources and environment too......
:cool:

Hoping not to sound arrogant, but rebuilding a fuser unit need a little more than only removing two screws and four connectors as with installing a factory new unit. :p

Hans

The more senior techs on here have probably rebuilt more fusers than they can count. I don't think you're gonna impress them with your ability to rebuild one. I think what copier tech is saying is that you're playing with fire - literally. You're using a thermistor that most likely hasn't passed any kind of safety tests and you're kinda playing Russian Roulette. If the copier were sitting in the middle of your home, that's one thing. But you're potentially putting your customer at risk. But it's your call. I wish you the best.

PS - Have you ever seen a fuser that has melted down? I have. It's quite a site to behold.

[Hansoon]

I don't think you're gonna impress them with your ability to rebuild one.

Well sorry you got that wrong. I never felt the need to impress one. It was not intended to "impress" one here but to help colleague Indies and share what experience I had with junk from AliBaba and warn them about it.

That was the one and sole purpose I had.

I didn't start the thread with "Guys look what I did and how bright I am"
My only and honest intention was to warn everybody here for certain Chinese suppliers.

English is not my mother tongue, perhaps things are perceived not the way I intended.
Since the reactions on my thread become more and more hostile, I will refrain from any further comment on this.

Very sorry to see that the once collegial attitude in this great site deteriorated that much...........

Hans

[BillyCarpenter]

Well sorry you got that wrong. I never felt the need to impress one. It was not intended to "impress" one here but to help colleague Indies and share what experience I had with junk from AliBaba and warn them about it.

That was the one and sole purpose I had.

I didn't start the thread with "Guys look what I did and how bright I am"
My only and honest intention was to warn everybody here for certain Chinese suppliers.

English is not my mother tongue, perhaps things are perceived not the way I intended.
Since the reactions on my thread become more and more hostile, I will refer from any further comment on this.

Very sorry to see that the once collegial attitude in this great site deteriorated that much...........

Hans


Hans,

I sincerely apologize if I misread what you said. This is the part I was referring to.

"Hoping not to sound arrogant, but rebuilding a fuser unit need a little more than only removing two screws and four connectors as with installing a factory new unit."


To me, it sounded a bit arrogant. But my apologies if that wasn't your intent. Cheers.

[allan]

Wow this would be serious breach of health & safely here in the UK, you can smell burning on a fuser that has done 600k after replacing parts from an unknown source.

Don't EVER leave that machine on unattended :mad:


There are multiple ways these machines can detect over and under temp. The only one relating to real robust safety would be the thermal fuses. Then if you install the wrong kind of NTC it would be the same as having a fuser issue and the machine will code out of pop the fuse. Try and set ABS-FR alight. Its his own office machine so can't see the issue for him to try and safe some money.

Its a real shame how much waste these machines can generate. Dev units, drum units, fusers, transfer belts, waste boxes, empty toner bottles, rollers and then eventually the machine itself will find itself to a landfill. Anything that can be rebuilt helps.

[copier tech]

There are multiple ways these machines can detect over and under temp. The only one relating to real robust safety would be the thermal fuses. Then if you install the wrong kind of NTC it would be the same as having a fuser issue and the machine will code out of pop the fuse. Try and set ABS-FR alight. Its his own office machine so can't see the issue for him to try and safe some money.

Its a real shame how much waste these machines can generate. Dev units, drum units, fusers, transfer belts, waste boxes, empty toner bottles, rollers and then eventually the machine itself will find itself to a landfill. Anything that ca be rebuilt helps.

So many factors come into play.

Old wires that have now overheated, they can catch fire. Or they can short causing a fire anywhere on the mains circuit.

Simple wire shorts have brought down multi million pound aircraft.

[BillyCarpenter]

There are multiple ways these machines can detect over and under temp. The only one relating to real robust safety would be the thermal fuses. Then if you install the wrong kind of NTC it would be the same as having a fuser issue and the machine will code out of pop the fuse. Try and set ABS-FR alight. Its his own office machine so can't see the issue for him to try and safe some money.

Its a real shame how much waste these machines can generate. Dev units, drum units, fusers, transfer belts, waste boxes, empty toner bottles, rollers and then eventually the machine itself will find itself to a landfill. Anything that ca be rebuilt helps.

You are correct...there's always some kind of fail/safe component (thermal fuse/breaker) associated with the fuser circuitry. But they don't always work. I've seen fusers meltdown before. I'm sure we all have. I will admit it's probably less likely with the newer machines.

[allan]

You are correct...there's always some kind of fail/safe component (thermal fuse/breaker) associated with the fuser circuitry. But they don't always work. I've seen fusers meltdown before. I'm sure we all have. I will admit it's probably less likely with the newer machines.


Remember there was a model of Oce machine that was known for catching on fire. Never had a KM fuser melt on me only things like the pressure roller fusing to the upper. The only machine i know of that did over heat was a Ricoh that caused the thermostat fuse to trip. Then the old trick was to take it out and throw it on a hard floor to let the bi-metal dome pop back out.

Now i have found some techs bridging the fuse with a paperclip. Now that is looking for trouble.

[blackcat4866]

I looks like time for me to weigh in:

I entirely trust the safety features of the thermostats. If the fuser survived the first 60 seconds after full warmup, and the image fuses, I'm good with it.

It's not like Hans took the thermistor from a coffee maker and mounted it in a copier ... it's a slightly different incarnation of exactly the same part with same purpose and the same specifications.

Furthermore, Hans is just proud of his ingenuity, like I would be if I was as intelligent as he is.
Congratulations Hans! =^..^=

[BillyCarpenter]

I looks like time for me to weigh in:

I entirely trust the safety features of the thermostats. If the fuser survived the first 60 seconds after full warmup, and the image fuses, I'm good with it.

It's not like Hans took the thermistor from a coffee maker and mounted it in a copier ... it's a slightly different incarnation of exactly the same part with same purpose and the same specifications.

Furthermore, Hans is just proud of his ingenuity, like I would be if I was as intelligent as he is.
Congratulations Hans! =^..^=


I don't know about all of that. I've bought cheap crap from China that worked well for several months and then shit the bed. I used to work on TV's and I used a HOT (Horizontal Output Transistor) and it worked great for a while. Then it shorted and ruined the TV.


EDIT: Let me be clear, I'm not against Hans rebuilding anything. I'm all for it. What I'm concerned about is using a thermistor from China that he knows nothing about and China doesn't exactly have a strict safety code for electrical parts or anything else. It's a gamble, IMHO.

[BillyCarpenter]

BTW: I wish I had never gotten involved in this thread. I talked to Hans via PM and apologized to him for misreading what he said.

[tsbservice]

BTW: I wish I had never gotten involved in this thread. I talked to Hans via PM and apologized to him for misreading what he said.

You don't need to be worried. We are all intelligent people around here but sometimes somebody misunderstands. Quite normal. I'm sure that even top-top techs no need to name them are working hard every day to improve their self. So myself thinking - tomorrow will be the day when I'm going to be a little better. Kinda helps me in situations when I'm not-so-bright and there're a lot of them :D