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copier tech
02-26-2021, 06:19 PM
Apologies if this has been asked before but what are your experiences with the High Durability BK Drum DR315K, worth the extra cost vs life?

I thought the only difference was the chip count, so the the OPC drum etc were identical.



48448

tech51
02-26-2021, 07:40 PM
There is a better cleaner on the charge roller, other than that mostly the same drum. I tend to use them on the 45 cpm and above only as I’ve not noticed much increase in life on the slower models.

copier tech
02-26-2021, 07:53 PM
There is a better cleaner on the charge roller, other than that mostly the same drum. I tend to use them on the 45 cpm and above only as I’ve not noticed much increase in life on the slower models.


I’ve not had the chance to compare the 2 side by side. How have the ‘improved’ the charge roller cleaner?

emujo2
02-26-2021, 08:43 PM
we were told to wait for a required f/w update to use these..your post made me realize that I never saw anything later to allow usage..The cost is about the same if you compare stated yields..not sure if I want to spend almost 2x per drum only to have them crap out as well.

copier tech
02-26-2021, 10:01 PM
we were told to wait for a required f/w update to use these..your post made me realize that I never saw anything later to allow usage..The cost is about the same if you compare stated yields..not sure if I want to spend almost 2x per drum only to have them crap out as well.

This backs up my thought in that the only difference is the chip count/life.

tech51
02-27-2021, 03:02 PM
4845348454

The first picture is the long life drum, the second one is the standard drum. You can see the charge roller cleaner is different. I believe they changed it to help prevent drum score marks.

Any firmware from g00 v1 onwards will enable use of this drum.

Regards. 51

tsbservice
02-27-2021, 06:32 PM
4845348454

The first picture is the long life drum, the second one is the standard drum. You can see the charge roller cleaner is different. I believe they changed it to help prevent drum score marks.

Any firmware from g00 v1 onwards will enable use of this drum.

Regards. 51

Yes helical charge roller cleaning rollers.

copier tech
02-27-2021, 09:52 PM
4845348454

The first picture is the long life drum, the second one is the standard drum. You can see the charge roller cleaner is different. I believe they changed it to help prevent drum score marks.

Any firmware from g00 v1 onwards will enable use of this drum.

Regards. 51


Thanks for the pics. Not sure how this would stop the OPC wearing out.

allan
02-27-2021, 11:09 PM
This backs up my thought in that the only difference is the chip count/life.

No counter data is stored on the chip. Chip consists of a drum set resistor and a fuse that reset the count on the machine.So surely you must change something on the machine to in crease the yield info. So guess it will be firmware and soft switches. Once its done you need to replace only with the high yield drums.

EarthKmTech
02-28-2021, 02:06 AM
lol

That improved pcr cleaning setup is already on the dr314 for the 8e bk models, in comparison with the regular dr313k those long life drums just fail at half life in my experience.

It might make some difference but i'm skeptical as to it being worth twice the price.

tech51
02-28-2021, 09:39 AM
No counter data is stored on the chip. Chip consists of a drum set resistor and a fuse that reset the count on the machine.So surely you must change something on the machine to in crease the yield info. So guess it will be firmware and soft switches. Once its done you need to replace only with the high yield drums.
No dipswitches to set only firmware update required.

Also once firmware is updated either drum type can be used.

tech51
02-28-2021, 09:45 AM
Thanks for the pics. Not sure how this would stop the OPC wearing out.

It won’t but in theory at least it should help prevent the charge roller getting soiled and putting scratches in the opc layer.

copier tech
02-28-2021, 09:52 AM
No counter data is stored on the chip. Chip consists of a drum set resistor and a fuse that reset the count on the machine.So surely you must change something on the machine to in crease the yield info. So guess it will be firmware and soft switches. Once its done you need to replace only with the high yield drums.

The count is kept on the drum chip? If I swap round 2 colours drums the counter moves with the drum.

tsbservice
02-28-2021, 12:18 PM
The count is kept on the drum chip? If I swap round 2 colours drums the counter moves with the drum.



Counters stay with machine not with drums.

BillyCarpenter
02-28-2021, 12:23 PM
Interesting thread but has anyone determined if it's best to use the high durability drum? I need to know so I can stop reading this thread. :p

tech51
02-28-2021, 01:54 PM
Interesting thread but has anyone determined if it's best to use the high durability drum? I need to know so I can stop reading this thread. :p
As I said I only use them on the faster/higher volume machines where there appears to be a benefit.

On lower volume/slower machines there doesn’t seem to be much difference in the life, but you’d really need to experiment yourself as I guess environmental conditions in different countries would make a difference.

copier tech
02-28-2021, 02:15 PM
Counters stay with machine not with drums.


Ok, but say I fit a new drum machine resets the counter to 0%. But if I then refit the old drum back the counter will change back to used counter @ 80% etc.

tsbservice
02-28-2021, 05:01 PM
Ok, but say I fit a new drum machine resets the counter to 0%. But if I then refit the old drum back the counter will change back to used counter @ 80% etc.




Nope. When you fit new drum counter resets to 100% then counting down with machine in use. If you remove new drum and put back old one drum life should stay 100%.
Please re-read what allan wrote it works exactly like that. In example of bizhub C258 consumables life counts are stored in EEPROM and see below quote from manual.

"Since the counter will be cleared when the EEPROM is replaced with a
new one, replace the following parts with new ones.
Configure [New Release] in Service Mode before replacing the transfer
belt unit and the fusing unit. Besides, configure [Counter clear] before
replacing the transfer roller.
• Developing unit/Y,M,C,K
• Drum unit/Y,M,C,K
• Toner cartridge/Y,M,C,K
• Transfer belt unit
• Fusing unit
• Transfer roller
• Feed roller, pick-up roller, separation roller (including options)"

Toxic
02-28-2021, 06:14 PM
Never pay attention on chip pcb, is it possible just replace (re-solder) fuse on drum chip to reset drum counter?

allan
02-28-2021, 08:13 PM
Never pay attention on chip pcb, is it possible just replace (re-solder) fuse on drum chip to reset drum counter?

Yes I do it with drum chips and developer chips. On the C360 range you could just short the pins out during the detection time. The C364 range they changed it so that it was not possible. So i started taking the TN512K toner chips and removed and reused the ICP(fuse) on there. Used the TN512K and turn them to TN321 to save money. TN512 cheaper than TN321 and you score the fuse.

So how will the machine know the difference between the high yield or the standard drum?

tsbservice
02-28-2021, 08:55 PM
Yes I do it with drum chips and developer chips. On the C360 range you could just short the pins out during the detection time. The C364 range they changed it so that it was not possible. So i started taking the TN512K toner chips and removed and reused the ICP(fuse) on there. Used the TN512K and turn them to TN321 to save money. TN512 cheaper than TN321 and you score the fuse.

So how will the machine know the difference between the high yield or the standard drum?

It will know you're putting CMY drum in place of K and complain and vice versa right? So looks it's easy to make them different by storing different resistance in machine memory(firmware) for different drums(chips).

allan
02-28-2021, 10:00 PM
It will know you're putting CMY drum in place of K and complain and vice versa right? So looks it's easy to make them different by storing different resistance in machine memory(firmware) for different drums(chips).


Hey yea never crossed my mind that it could use an analog value input to the MCU in question. Then it can for sure recognize a whole range of difference. Cleaver use of one resistor for drum set and identification. Actually 2 resistors to form voltage divider but the second resistor can be on the control board. Like a 5 button control for an older LCD or CRT monitor had only 2 or 3 wires going to it.

Button 1 could be 5V and 10 bit ADC value of 1023 and less by a tolerance.
Button 2 could be 4V and 10bit ADC value of around 819 by a tolerance.
And so on.


Found this helpful calculator. (https://www.rfwireless-world.com/calculators/n-bit-ADC-calculator.html)

copier tech
03-01-2021, 10:12 AM
Hey yea never crossed my mind that it could use an analog value input to the MCU in question. Then it can for sure recognize a whole range of difference. Cleaver use of one resistor for drum set and identification. Actually 2 resistors to form voltage divider but the second resistor can be on the control board. Like a 5 button control for an older LCD or CRT monitor had only 2 or 3 wires going to it.

Button 1 could be 5V and 10 bit ADC value of 1023 and less by a tolerance.
Button 2 could be 4V and 10bit ADC value of around 819 by a tolerance.
And so on.


Found this helpful calculator. (https://www.rfwireless-world.com/calculators/n-bit-ADC-calculator.html)

Thanks, it all makes sense now.

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