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blackcat4866
07-01-2021, 07:14 PM
Does anybody have this manual?

I have an interesting issue. When you switch from roll2 to roll1 the paper in roll2 does not park correctly winding the paper back past the sensor and rollers, then shows roll2 empty. When you open the lower tray the paper has been rewound. If you load only roll2 and feed exclusively roll2 it works fine. Only when roll2 parks is there an issue. I suspect the reflective sensor in the roll2 tray responding slowly.

If I understand this correctly, when paper is inserted to the sensor, the feed motor engages to advance the paper a few inches beyond the edge of the tray, then the rewinder pulls the paper back to a spot before the sensor, but after the feed rollers. The part I don't understand, is: there is nothing holding the paper in place when it isn't driving. The feed rollers swivel in to contact the paper when driving (I expected some sort of torque limiter here, but alas none), but these same rollers fall back the moment the driving stops. And the rewinder drive turns very easily, I expected a little more back-tension. I expected some resistance at one or both of these drive units, but there is none. Functioning roll1 works exactly the same way.

My best guess right now is that the photoreflective sensor is responding slowly, so that by the time the rewinder stops, the paper is below the feed rollers and cannot be retrieved without reloading. Does that sound right? =^..^=

blackcat4866
07-03-2021, 08:48 PM
Anyone? =^..^=

blackcat4866
07-05-2021, 12:49 AM
Perhaps unrelated, but I have recorded errors 0086-0004-0092, 0086-0004-0080
=^..^=

mga
07-05-2021, 06:18 PM
Anyone? =^..^=

I will get it tomorrow for you

blackcat4866
07-05-2021, 07:21 PM
Many thanks! =^..^=

mga
07-06-2021, 02:44 PM
Many thanks! =^..^=

Pm sent service manual

blackcat4866
07-06-2021, 11:55 PM
Perhaps unrelated, but I have recorded errors 0086-0004-0092, 0086-0004-0080
=^..^=

Entirely unrelated. The machine detected no printhead at bootup. Probably every new setup stores these codes. =^..^=

blackcat4866
07-08-2021, 12:14 AM
When I had first heard of the issue, I had suggested that maybe the wrong core size roll had been loaded. My first impression was that it might be a rewinder error. On various machines, I've seen the paper unload of it's own volition, then ask to load paper.

Diagnostic mode 02002 confirms this. The diagnostic mode measures something called Low to Normal force, range 1.5 to 9.2 (units?) of acceptable values. This one reads 9.8 ... what? I don't know, but it's too much or to little, outside the acceptable range. I'm ordering the Rewinder & Picker Motor Assy.

Other than the two typical setup errors there are no other errors. Thanks Mark. I'll follow up later. =^..^=

blackcat4866
07-10-2021, 12:08 AM
Now I know a little more ... and a little less, all at the same time:

The bottom tray isn't too difficult to get off, just heavy and awkward, and the machine is touching file cabinets on both sides. There couldn't be less space to work. Two new rewinder motor assemblies, and both still fail the same diagnostic 02002 by 9.8 and 10.6, and the symptoms haven't changed ...

... but I tried three different paper rolls 24" @ ~150LF, 30" @ 500LF, and 30" @ 20LF. I though maybe width or weight of the paper roll might make a difference. Nope, any roll in roll2 location unloads after a roll switch, but works fine if you continue to use roll2. Roll1 location continues to work regardless of size/roll weight.

The failure happens when switching rolls from source roll1 to parked roll2. AFAIK roll2 is properly parked and holding the paper. Roll2 feeds paper up the paper path displaying message "Resuming Roll2", then "Checking Paper", then "Aligning Paper" (sometime twice or three times), then "Cancelling Load" or "Unloading Paper". The light on the tray2 goes red. Roll1 resumes normally without the aligning, then prints the job regardless of width.

So I'm theorizing that the aligning is part of the issue. It's a longer paper path from roll2, so I can imagine the need to re-align ... and it's probably using a media sensor on the carriage like other Designjets, so if the sensor works for roll1 it should also work for roll2. There are only two errors stored, resulting from initializing without a printhead, what you might expect on setup. I do not understand how the machine can push roll2 paper vertically uphill more than 24" without assist of vertical path rollers, yet it does.

Does any of this ring a bell? =^..^=

blackcat4866
07-14-2021, 12:21 AM
Follow up: HP tech support is pointing me towards the Clean-Out Media Sensor. The theory is that roll1 does not use this sensor, so remains unaffected. We shall see. =^..^=

blackcat4866
07-20-2021, 11:38 PM
More information ... and I know even less than before.

The roll2 media sensor made no difference, and detects paper present/paper absent in diagnostic mode.
The roll2 rewinder is now passing the diagnostic. I have no idea why.

I figured out that I can key the top door and watch the paper passage during the "Unloading". My abbreviated test is to:
Load roll2
Load roll1 (roll2 now parked)
Print an internal print (like Usage Page) from roll2.

So what usually happens is:
Roll1 parks.
Roll2 feeds paper up the vertical path.
Slight hesitation when paper trips the clean-out media sensor.
Pinch rollers raise ~2mm.
Paper advances to ~13mm from the star wheel guide, and pinch rollers lower.
Simultaneously paper advances into the star wheel guide and starts measuring the left edge location x3
Paper advances ~200mm then repeats the left edge measurement
If it doesn't like the measurement, the pinch rollers raise/lower to release any buckle.
Paper backs up ~200mm then repeats the left edge measurement
Carriage moves in ~100mm and the paper advances x3 edging past the line sensor
I think this is where it goes wrong:

When it fails, the paper backs down into the roll2 tray and displays "Unloading Roll".

When it's successful, printing starts.

I am suspecting the Line Sensor-Tetris, or Carriage PWB, or Engine PWB ... except for the fact that roll1 uses exactly the same paper, line sensor, PWB's and always detects left edge and leading edge correctly. We'll see what tech support has to say. =^..^=

blackcat4866
07-27-2021, 12:17 AM
Another cross-off:
The Pinches Assembly (formed aluminum frame with ~150 star wheels) is not warped, and raises and lowers appropriately in service mode. I suspect that the pinches assembly is too far down the path to be a cause. Sometimes the paper roll does not get that far. There's about 10 seconds from the time the paper edge clears the grit roller, until it fails some part of the queueing up process.

Tech support provided me with the latest version of the manual. The older version showed photos of the Pagewide XL paper deck with 2 rolls per tray. Somewhere along the way it got simplified to one roll per tray.

I got bumped up a level in tech support. I wonder if that means the fixes will be more difficult? =^..^=

blackcat4866
08-18-2021, 11:01 PM
If anybody is interested I got bumped up to Engineering in Spain.

Firmware version 4_20_21.1 seems to solve this issue for the three standard paper roll sizes 24", 30", & 36", in whatever configuration you like: upper or lower. I believe the most current firmware is version 7_21_20.1
There's a version 5, but but I don't know if it presents symptoms or not.

And I don't know how custom sizes, ISO sizes, and less standard sizes like 15" and ANSI widths are affected.
I'll be interested if you can add any detail. =^..^=

blackcat4866
11-13-2021, 03:01 AM
Just to confirm, this issue exists in firmware versions:

CYCLOPSMARS_7_21_20.1.fmw
CYCLOPSMARS_8_21_39.11.rfu.fmw
CYCLOPSMARS_8_21_39.14.rfu.fmw

Some machines work with versions:
CYCLOPSMARS_4_20_21.1.rfu.fmw
CYCLOPSMARS_1_19_18.6.rfu.fmw

It's fixed in version:
CYCLOPSMARS_8_21_43.13.rfu.fmw

=^..^=

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